Letters to the editor: Oct. 11, 2019

Keep measure in place

Earlier this year, I was approached downtown to sign the Oregon Health Care Association petition. It is aimed at repealing the city ordinance that protects nursing home residents and eliminates wasteful non-emergency calls burdening our ambulance EMTs.

The signature gatherers I talked to were not residents of McMinnville. They were being paid to get the signatures.

They did not understand the background of the ordinance either. They were simply parroting the lie that the ordinance somehow imposed a tax on senior citizens.

Unfortunately, enough people believed their nonsense that sufficient signatures were gathered to require us to vote on Measure 36-202 on Nov. 5. I hope everyone will take the time to see through the propaganda of the nursing home industry and vote NO on this repeal measure.

Fire Chief Rich Leipfert and his team spent several years trying to convince local nursing homes to stop calling 911 for non-emergency medical assistance that the nursing homes are supposed to be providing as part of their service to their clients. I attended several city council meetings over the years where the chief and the council discussed how to end the abuse before they finally settled on the ordinance passed last year — the one the nursing home industry now wants repealed.

And you know what? That ordinance worked!

Non-emergency calls from the nursing homes have been virtually eliminated. Our EMTs are now able to focus on real emergency calls designed to assist everyone, be they in nursing homes or private residences.

As taxpayers and voters concerned with effective government service, we would be fools to repeal this ordinance and go back to subsidizing nursing home services with property tax dollars.

Please vote NO on Measure 36-202.

Mark Davis



Change proving disruptive

It has been said that inertia is the greatest friend of the marital state. A wry perspective, perhaps, but there is a truth in it.

Change is hard. There are many things we stay with even though we may not be fully satisfied with them, including marriages, jobs, eating habits and exercise routines.

We stay with the familiar because changing our habits, our relationships, our daily patterns involves risk and a lot of effort. It’s daunting, intimidating. So we stick with our usual routine and try to improve what we have rather than build a brand-new structure.

When it comes to politics, however, we are far more inclined to seek change, often dramatic change. Millions of Americans did exactly that when they voted for Donald Trump, who has proven to be the most disruptive president in modern history.

Millions of Americans currently support Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, who are also transformational politicians, promising to overturn our medical care, tax and social welfare systems. Why are we so willing to roll the dice for political change when we are so reluctant to do the same in our personal lives?

First, asking for political change involves little to no work on our part. We elect politicians to do that work for us. 

Second, the risk is harder to assess. Changing jobs presents clear hazards, but how do we assess the risk of switching to a Medicare for All system? What would happen if we legalized cocaine and heroin?

With so much uncertainty, it’s easy to project our most optimistic dreams — or horrified fears — on political ideas. We tend to be moderates when dealing with personal change but accepting of more radical change in politics.

Given recent experience, maybe we should consider that inertia might be the greatest friend of the political state as well.

Scott Gibson



‘The chosen one’

The president has a messianic complex, and this is dangerous for our democracy. Examples of his God-complex are numerous.

Individually, each might be dismissed as him simply bragging or misspeaking. But together they demonstrate a worrisome mental state.

First and most recently, this week he wrote in a tweet that he has “great and unmatched wisdom.” In August, he called himself “the chosen one.” He later said it was a joke, but he is hardly known for his sense of humor. And several times he has tweeted that he is “a very stable genius.” Who talks like this?

Thus, I appreciate the News-Register editorial supporting the impeachment of the president.

There are numerous justifications for impeachment by the House and conviction in a Senate trial. But, sadly, the most important justification for removing him from office may have been made on Saturday Night Live, when Michael Che suggested something is wrong with the president, mentally, and it may no longer be OK to make fun of him.

Brad Thompson



A nation of immigrants

I was moved by the commentary of Miriam Vargas Corona and Jordan Robinson on new immigration rules, from the Sept. 24 Viewpoints. I admire the work of these two organizations, which are trying to improve the lives of the “stranger in our midst” — or not so much a stranger, as is often the case.

How we treat anybody is how we treat everybody. Fear is a wretched and paralyzing emotion.

I am an immigrant myself. My homeland is the UK. And I happen to have traveled to more than 50 countries around the world.

But even being from a country enjoying a “special relationship” with the U.S., I can honestly say that I was and am more afraid of immigration authorities in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world.

I am an immigrant — completely legal, I grant you, but an immigrant all the same. How would you feel if, like me, a Costco gas attendant said, “Why don’t you go back to where you came from.” It strikes me as odd that a country built by immigrants has turned into one that by and large is institutionally ungrateful and disrespectful. Non-law abiding immigrants should be in fear, but for the rest of us, fear should be something banished to the sidelines so we can go on making our contribution and live in peace.

Jonathan Booth



Values alternative perspective

I was dismayed to read Nicole Montesano’s article describing the Sept. 26 board of commissioners meeting, where the appointment of two members to the county health advisory board was discussed.

Yamhill County has a vibrant and diverse community of constituents. Thus, it is concerning that alternative health care providers do not currently sit on the health advisory board.

Availing oneself of alternative health care is not a sufficient substitute for the valuable perspective that an alternative health care provider can bring to the table. Commissioner Starrett should be commended for her efforts to ensure Yamhill County residents are fully informed and represented.

Sophia Mekkers



Working together

I want to thank Commissioners Rick Olson and Mary Starrett for urging a work session to address lack of proper representation for alternative medicine on our Yamhill County Board of Health.

I find it concerning that with the bias and adverse experiences related by many constituents, Commissioner Casey Kulla felt it appropriate to joke about it, confirming our frustration over the board being severely one-sided.

A number of people on the board have financial ties to traditional medicine. Having people on the board representing alternative medicine, thus not carrying that conflict, is very much needed in our county.

From the bottom of my heart, I also want to extend a huge thanks to Jay Pearson, McMinnville Parks & Recreation, McMinnville Noon Kiwanis and other foundations that helped get McMinnville’s fully inclusive park built.

Helping families of disabilities has been something very close to my heart since I was 9 years old. I was tasked with caring for a severely disabled girl following the DTP vaccine in 1990s, and she could not enjoy parks like we all were able to.

Today, I work with families caring for disabled vaccine-injured children to protect their rights of informed consent and patient autonomy. Their children’s disabilities have made it next to impossible for them to play at a traditional park, so the families would venture out to other cities for an inclusive park.

It goes to show that when we work together as a community to make children’s health, wellness and safety a priority, anything is possible.

Brittany Ruiz



Just vote no

Please vote NO on McMinnville Measure 36-202, an attempt by the care home industry to repeal a city ordinance imposing fair and necessary fees on local care facilities.

In 2018, our city council passed Ordinance 5059, which imposes a $1,500 fine when a care home misuses the 911 system and an annual $200 per bed fee to partially offset the cost of inspecting care facilities.

In 2017, fire department EMTs were summoned to more than 500 non-emergencies at care facilities. Examples include assistance with lifting a patient into a bed or wheelchair, taking a resident to the ER for renewal of a prescription, and transporting a resident who didn’t want to be transported. Those calls cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars each year, which is why the fine was imposed.

The city has not yet had to fine a care facility, as non-emergency 911 calls have been virtually eliminated. In other words, the $1,500 fine is working, with the result that local taxpayers are saving hundreds of thousands of dollars and freeing our firefighters and EMTs to respond to real emergencies.

Both state law and common sense dictate that care facilities must be regularly inspected. The $200 per bed fee was imposed to offset the cost of those inspections. The monthly cost to facilities runs $16.67 per bed.

Care facilities charge their residents anywhere from $4,000 to $10,000 a month, if not more. So in truth, $16.67 is a small amount — especially given the importance of making sure care facilities are safe for their vulnerable residents.

The industry group backing the Measure 36-202 repeal attempt is calling Ordinance 5059 an unfair tax on the elderly.

Don’t fall for scare tactics. Vote NO on 36-202.

Jerry Hart



Finally, a park for all

In 2013, I welcomed my first baby into the world. He was a beautiful, healthy, blue-eyed boy.

After his four-month vaccinations, I noticed my son lost some motor control skills. After his nine-month vaccines, he was getting very ill, and his doctor said, “Something is wrong with your son.”

I continued to trust my doctor. Then, at his three-year wellness exam, following his flu shot, he went from being severely delayed to getting violently ill, engaging in repetitive self-stimulating gestures, losing eye contact and becoming self-injurious. This is when my eyes were opened.

My son received 32 vaccines in his first three years of life, because that’s what my doctor told me was required.

He should be able to talk. He should be potty-trained. And he should be able to play at parks like all of his peers.

Going to parks in our city has been very tough. Running after my youngest while also trying to accommodate a boy with severe delays has shown him that he’s not equal.

I would like to thank McMinnville Parks and Recreation, local community organizations and the McMinnville Kiwanis Club for developing a park that doesn’t discriminate against my son, a park that tells him his disability doesn’t prevent him from enjoying playground equipment as much as any other child.

As a mother, I can play with my disabled son with one hand and my other son with the other, and do it safely. It’s the most amazing feeling, as a mother, to see both looking forward to the park equally lovingly.

Our family is forever grateful for a park that caters to children who are vaccine-injured or otherwise disabled and makes them feel equal.

Jenee Gleason



Addiction linked to abuse

This is in regard to the front page story on Aug. 30 about the local addiction-recovery nonprofit Provoking Hope.

First, I want to acknowledge the great work Provoking Hope does and how many people it helps in this county and community. A relative of mine has received the organization’s help as well.

But one thing Executive Director Diane Reynolds fails to point out in the article is the astounding association between substance abuse in adulthood and sexual abuse in childhood.

According to www.invisiblechildren.org, “two-thirds of people in treatment for drug abuse report being abused as children.” The website also reports, “more than one-third of adolescents with abuse in their past will have a substance abuse disorder, often before they are 18 years of age”; and, “They are also more likely to abuse drugs or alcohol, compared to those without abuse in their past.”

The website www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov indicates “70% of women in treatment for alcohol use disorders reported some kind of sexual abuse.”

I think that’s something Provoking Hope clients in recovery would appreciate knowing.

Gayle Campbell



No basis for expansion

Every day, county commissioners make decisions affecting the lives of residents. At 10 a.m. Oct. 17, they will make one that could do so by raiding pocketbooks.

Crucial to decisionmaking, the county staff prepares information packets prior to each meeting. These packets accompany meeting agendas and direct the course of business.

Meaningful conversation ensues and important findings are ratified as the basis for an ordinance. These findings are included in the language of the ordinance itself, as a preamble.

But the ordinance to increase the number of county commissioners from three to five, up for consideration at the Oct. 17 session, lacks any objective foundation to inform board action. To remain accountable for their actions, county commissioners owe it to the public to document a basis for any new ordinance.

Increasing the number of commissioners figures to costs hundreds of thousands of dollars the first year and millions of dollars over time. Proponents downplay this concern, casting it aside as a far-off problem.

They expect revenue to materialize to cover the added administrative costs. But saying yes to additional overhead says no to other priorities, like public safety, housing, public health and infrastructure.

The normal avenue for citizens to affect change is via initiative petition. That requires gathering signatures and thus encourages careful consideration of diverse viewpoints.

The process of petitioning itself spreads knowledge to members of the community and serves as a test of the will of the people. Commissioners passing an ordinance to refer an issue this consequential to voters amounts to a subversion of that process.

This ordinance falls short of rightful expectations for a transparent political process. I urge our community to contact the commissioners and encourage them to vote against placement of this ordinance on the ballot.

Dan Masterson




I welcome his perspectives and join Brad Thompson in his appreciation of the N/R support for impeachment. Speaking out is definitely a profile in courage at this time when voices of opposition to the current authoritarian regime face threats of violence and the organized wrath of an entrenched and malicious base of enablers.

Having a person with a verifiably extreme narcissistic personality disorder on the throne of power continues to imperil America and the entire world. We need look no further than the slaughter of the Kurds generated by a reckless inhumane midnight gift to Erdogan and Putin last weekend. No need to wonder how our troops felt as they were ordered to abandon the forces who had been instrumental in helping rein in and contain ISIS, as they were commanded to desert those who had fought and died beside them. ISIS will soon rebuild their networks and come for us again. The cost of betrayal will soon come home to roost.

Our national security has been severely weakened, our credibility as a world leader has been destroyed, we can no longer be trusted to honor our commitments, and America continues to be profoundly shamed. As we witness the daily revelations of treachery and corruption, and the results of blatant documented abuse of power, we must rely on the wisdom of our Founding Fathers as enshrined in the Constitution for dealing with the crisis we face now. Impeachment is the path back to stability and honor.


tree. take a breath man. breath deeply. let it out. think about the future. the federalists (happy Moscow Mitch) have packed the federal courts with life time appointments. big corporations are ecstatic. for the next generation or so any social programs will likely be judged unconstitutional. any attempt to have a progressive tax system will be unconstitutional. the next election is critical. yeah seeing some justice served up to the 'current occupant' might make you feel good. but the Senate has his ass covered. there will be a quick acquittal. meanwhile this next election steps closer and closer.


Thanks for the sage advice, Mike. I’ve had more “colorful” suggestions here of course, but the Zen approach is surely worth a test drive. I recognize that your comments are grounded in reality, and there is now a massive amount of irreversible damage that will never be undone. However, if the basement is flooding, there is still value in shutting off the source of the water. I agree that conviction in the Senate is a remote outcome, but it could be that having the depth of corruption exposed in the House may be enough to affect the vote and spare us four additional years of chaos and depravity. (Perhaps those judges you reference would not be quite so empowered under different leadership?) I’m working on coming to grips with the undeniable truth that some of our fellow citizens sincerely like and embrace the chaos, factual revelations will make no difference to them – and at this point the best hope is in the numbers. And I would definitely welcome seeing some justice served up, you are correct about that, although I can’t say that would make me feel any version of “good.” At this point I am ready to settle for just shutting the water off.


I believe impeachment is nonsense but agree with you both regarding the President's horrid unforced foreign policy error in Syria. A lot of conservatives share my concern and are very vocal about it. I sent two hand written letters to the White House regarding the issue last week (my printer broke).

It's a mess in Syria, and the Syrian Kurds didn't exactly hide their alliance with PKK terrorists in Turkey, but it was a mistake for the president to pull what limited forces we had in the area out. I'm not convinced a handful of U.S. troops were going to keep the Turks at bay in the end, but you send the Vice President to Turkey before they invade, not after. Hind sight is 20-20 though.


It's becoming clear Ukraine is a diversion by the IC (intelligence community) from the investigation into the origins of the Russia Collusion Hoax. The Italian professor's (Joseph Mifsud) Blackberry's was tied to Western, not Russian, intelligence [see link]. He contacted George Papadopoulos in March 2106 telling him that the Russian's had dirt on Hillary (Papadopoulos didn't take the bait but that didn't stop the so-called investigation Crossfire Hurricane from official starting in July 2016).

Those of you on the left that seem to want to deny a president you don't like (Trump) his article two constitutional rights may want them back for Obama. As all counter-intelligence investigations flow through the president one must ask what did Obama know and when did he know it?



“The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.
It was their final, most essential command.”
George Orwell

Democracy isn’t dying in darkness, it is being murdered in broad daylight.


LOL Treefarmer. You just used George Orwell's 1984 in DEFENSE of the most extensive use of state surveillance on a political campaign (Trump 2016 campaign) during an election in the history of our country! The utter irony!

Now that we KNOW Misfud was a Western intelligence asset we know the FBI used the Opposition Research of the party in power as the BASIS to SPY on the opposing party's campaign in the middle of a general election. What part of that doesn't alarm you?


Mick Mulvaney, Syria, the G7 meeting location........no red flags there?


I personally wouldn't use the G7 location even if it was the best and most cost effective (cheapest) location and priced so it didn't make the Trump organization any money - but that's just me. Note camp David isn't even remotely adequate and the Trump location has many desirable features including the ability of each country's delegations to stay in their own compounds.

As for Mulvaney. I saw the interview. Many are purposely conflating investigating the Bidens and the both active and public (see links) DOJ investigation into Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election on behalf of the DNC/Clinton campaign and the origins of the Russia Hoax. Even if there was some type of quid pro quo for this (its in dispute: earlier testimony from Gordon Sondland and Ron Johnson statement that there was no quid pro quo) their is nothing illegal about it. Do you realize how common it is to use aid to get countries to assist in investigations or another foreign policy objective?



Sure enough, nary a red flag anywhere so long as one maintains the ability to “reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.” It must be beyond exhausting to conjure up defenses for the blitzkrieg of corruption being exposed daily.


Keep up with the Trump Derangement Syndrome induced red-flag delusions.

It's a FACT that most families that go into politics (Bidens, Clintons, & Obamas) become MUCH richer while in and after office. It is also a FACT that Donald Trump's family has lost a TON of money since he entered (see link) politics. They will most assuredly NEVER make it back because of the toxic political nature in the U.S. and the world. I'm impressed someone who's supposed to have such an inflated ego is willing to SACRIFICE this much. Like him or not - he must really believe in what he's doing.



Also - I take back some of my earlier criticism of Trump on Syria. It's street logic, and I wouldn't have done the same thing, but his decision makes a little more sense now. Only time will tell if his tactic was right. Its a crude and awful reality but as both Turkey and the Kurds are allies and have fought each other for centuries maybe blood needed to be shed before they were willing to negotiate with each other. He'd been working with them for two years for a deal and it wasn't working.



RobsNewsRegister - No reasonable person would defend the indefensible. Are you saying that Trump and Mulvaney are lying? They admitted there was a quid pro quo. Now Trump is awarding himself with the location of the G7 to be held at his Doral Resort...and he isn't even trying to hide it.

The constitution states in the Emoluments Clause: "No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State."

Prepare yourself.....Trump will be impeached and we will see if the Senate removes him (and Pence) from office.


1. At WORST case, there was a quid pro quo (one of three parts - corruption, Europeans $$ the other two) for Ukraine to help in an ACTIVE investigation into 2016 election interference by Ukraine, Italy, UK, Australia, and Russia (somehow, someway, the Weisman team never looked at the Steele dossier though they supposedly "investigated" Russian interference in the 2016 election). Everyone, to a person, has made it clear that Biden was not part of a quid pro quo. In fact - didn't even come up in meetings.

Like it or not, Trump is president and has constitutional powers. That is in no way illegal and happens all the time if not daily. This 'worst case' may not even be true but a case of miss-perceptions within the executive staff. I for one want to know how in the heck the executive branch of our government was paralyzed by an untrue Trump-Russia conspiracy allegation for two years. A lot of good people lost their houses and paid more in legal fees than wages because of this hoax on the American people. Something like 2016 can never happen again.

2. The courts will decide if Doral is legal or not even if it is the cheapest and best solution. As an American taxpayer, I don't feel like cutting a larger check until I have too.

Trump may be impeached in the Marxist style "trial" going on in the House behind closed doors with no due process or minority defense rights, but it will blow up on them in the Senate when full testimony goes public and we get a real process.


RobsNewsRegister - Trump's presidency is starting to crumble....impeachment is coming. Republicans are starting to come out and criticize his actions. Syria may be a bridge too far for many who see Trump's erratic withdrawal of troops as a threat to our national security and a betrayal of the Kurds who fought along side us to defeat ISIS. He acts without thinking things through and he really doesn't know what he's doing. For many republicans the slaughter of the Kurds and the unleashing of a Turkish invasion was egregious enough for 2/3rds of the House republicans to vote to condemn Trump's actions.

It's mind-boggling that his fawning over Kim Jong Un, lies, serial cheating, rape allegations, kids in cages, failed trade war, defending Putin, thug behavior, foul mouth and war on our government institutions weren't enough to condemn him earlier...go figure.


Do you realize of the six people that Shifty Schiff has had 'testify', none were on the Ukraine call and two weren't even in the administration at the time of the conversation? It's a clown show.

Scary thought - Trump made the Syria decision without consulting the Intelligence Community because he couldn't trust the discussion wouldn't leak to the public. The lack of professionalism by so-called public servants in Washington DC is shocking. In the private sector we're expected to work with people we don't like every single day - why can government employees? There is a part of me that thinks it may be best to have another president - but it's not because of Trump himself. The Swamp bureaucracy isn't patriotic and mature enough to honor their oath of secrecy and serve their country with a president in office they seem more interested in subverting. Or in the case of the cheating love birds Strzok and Page; texting each other 50,000 times instead of doing their jobs.



Well. There goes that. Now it will actually cost taxpayer money and be somewhere cramped like Camp David. Probably for the best but stinks if you're attending. Don't worry, there will be another 'outrage of the day' next week.



RobsNewsRegister - I just read that the G7 will be held somewhere other than Trump's resort. I imagine that someone told the clueless idiot that he could be impeached for taking foreign money. He's hasn't read the Constitution and he has no clue what's in it, however ignorance of the law is no excuse.


So many false talking points regurgitated above, but none more revealing than the “derangement syndrome” meme. That one is rich……..tragi-comic actually…… not more than a lazy and delusional way to dismiss the valid concerns of fellow citizens. From the perspective of the base, it is not remotely possible that others are appropriately alarmed and offended by lawless abuse of power, by pathological lying, by the shredding of our Constitution, by vulgarity and bullying, by the documented denigration and corruption of America, or by reckless insane “decisions” that plunge the whole world into chaos. If those realities bother a person, and if that person reacts with revulsion to the abuse and destruction, it MUST be smugly written off as “derangement.” What’s the matter with us that we aren’t willing to stand by silently and accept the assault on our values and our country? Why are some of us woefully incapable of crafting or accepting bizarre conspiracy theories in service to dear leader? How dare we challenge the self-proclaimed stable genius? Impossible to fathom, or so it would seem.

I submit that “derangement” is in the eye of the beholder who has chosen to live in denial. Someone needs to find a less ludicrous catchphrase to defend the emperor because the derangement thing is pathetic.


Cut, paste and repeat . . .


That’s it, Finch? (Variation of your “STICK IT” theme perhaps?)
You may feel further frustrated when reminded that I am impervious to your jabs, be they large and judgmental or small and pointless.
Rock on!


I must admit it is rather amusing to see terms like "dictator" and "emperor" thrown out there regarding president Trump so casually. Dictators and emperors don't coexist with a hostile media nor tolerate subversion from within their own government.

For example: a journalist and media organization may pen a story critical of Xi in China once. Then jail or worse. If someone inside the government of the PRC leaked classified intelligence they, and likely their family, would be summarily executed or hauled off to a hard labor camp. Leaks aimed at politically damaging the president are a common occurrence in Washington DC today. Actual conversations are being leaked Treefarmer! I would have never imagined such a thing.

There are actual dictators in the power today. President Donald Trump may have a laundry list of character flaws and annoy you but he is by no means an emperor nor dictator. People voted for an outsider in 2016 out of desperation because our system had become corrupt (actual corruption e.g. Clintons/Bidens/Republicans Too) and there was such a blatant, in-your face, double standard between those connected and not connected to The Swamp they no longer trusted the establishment.


Thank you Rob. All true -- again.


Of course the stable genius has not achieved the power of a genuine dictator, nor have I ever asserted that America has devolved into a dictatorship. (And so far as I know he has not had a throne installed in the Oval office either.) But his “style” of so-called governing IS dictatorial. He believes he is smarter than anyone, he pulls reckless treacherous “ideas” right out of his – um.....let’s say left nostril and abuses the power we entrusted him with to inflict that madness on the world. He consults with no one because, well, you know – his wisdom is great and unmatched. His denigration of the press is classic Authoritarianism 101. Only HIS version of truth and facts are to be believed. He makes royal pronouncements, he commands worship and adoration just as any king or emperor would. When the corruption and lies are exposed by someone – Fox included - truth-telling makes them the enemy of the people…….a useful and effective concept employed by dictators Stalin and Mao.

Those “so-called public servants,” whose behavior you find “SHOCKING!” are going to be our salvation. They have kept their heads down and tried to keep performing their duties even as the destruction of our government escalated. I am profoundly grateful they are willing to risk their careers, and the wrath of the sick vindictive bully-in-chief, to expose the corrupt underbelly of the most malignant administration in American history. They are patriots. The “leaks” that have your knickers in a knot are blessings in disguise. (And it will never make sense to blame the messenger.)


And something for my #1 critic - an ACTUAL cut and paste. This is a quote from Maria Shriver, a great lady who sums up a shared anguish quite succinctly:

“As the sun sets on another week, I find myself so exhausted and angered by this President’s cruelty, his mocking language, his overall behavior. His presence tarnishes the most prestigious job in the world…...”

Ms. Shriver ‘s observations are decidedly more reserved than what I usually post, but her words ring true and resonate nonetheless.


@Treefarmer. Let's talk about the whistleblower who figured out, with the help of Schiff/Clinton lawyers, a semi-legal way to leak about Ukraine.

1. We know he was a NSC (National Security Council Support) staffer during the Obama administration on loan from the CIA. These people directly work to support the National Security Advisor and hence the president and have access to the White House.

2. We know he worked with Biden AND went on at least one trip to Ukraine with Joe Biden.

3. We know that he contacted Schiff/Lawyers three weeks before turning in his second hand hearsay complaint. Both parties either lied (Schiff) or did not divulge this association (e.g. whistleblower form). This CIA agent may be using the system and House Democrats to cover his backside because he was in on some of the corruption in Ukraine that either is by our DOJ, or may now be with Ukraine's new outsider prosecutor, investigated. Clever in my opinion.

Unfortunately, this tactic resulted in the first ever release of the a presidential transcript and the leak of a conversation between an American president and the president of a nuclear armed adversary (Xi of the PRC). These are horrendous precedents.

This president is trying to implement policies that are unpopular with the DC establishment that threaten their ability to profit and collect 'rent' based on their government connections. That is exactly what Hunter Biden was, and is (China Hedge Fund), doing. Trump is hitting them in the pocket book and they (from both political parties) are hitting back hard to de-rail this effort.



I do read your posts, Rob………sometimes I need to read them twice in a sincere attempt to understand your logic. Clearly you believe the one who proclaims his great and unmatched wisdom. Lots of people do. You sometimes publish his ‘wisdom’ verbatim (i.e. “shifty Schiff”) and seem to accept his self-serving “version” of the facts. Your research and the links you use to support your opinions are often contradictory and confusing to me. And as I type those words I am acutely aware that you (and others) have the same reaction to what I write and cite. Let’s hear it for the First Amendment!

Impeachment is an extreme and somber remedy to protect us from someone who fails his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, from someone who abuses power and degrades the office of the President, from someone who uses the agencies of government to commit and cover his crimes. We must not buy the Nixon theory that if the President does it, it is NOT a crime. We shall see if the ultimate jury - Republican Senators – listen to the facts and find it justified to remove this destructive force from power. If not, it is possible that voters will have seen and heard enough to take care of it with our ballots next year.


> his self-serving “version” of the facts
I didn't realize Wikipedia (Ukraine corruption link) was Trump's version of the facts. Good to know.

> Clearly you believe the one who proclaims his great and unmatched wisdom
Would it shock you to learn I left a message at Senator Lindsey Graham's office urging him to run for the 2020 Republican nomination? I'm an Independent; but I think the Senator has distinguished himself during the past two and a half years (calling out Russia Hoax and Kavanaugh craziness) and he's a fiscal conservative like myself.

However, I am also not a never-Trumper and can recognize the Swamp's handiwork when I see it. Our nation's capital become corrupt as power centralized in DC the past few decades and the in-your-face double standard in the federal justice system shocks me. There are many examples but here is just one.

Tony Podesta: Lobbied in Ukraine but was given immunity by the FBI and was allowed to fill out foreign lobbying paperwork after the fact (first link).

Paul Manafort: Spent over a month in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT like El-Chapo, wasn't allowed to fill out same said paperwork after the fact, and now sits in PRISON over the SAME situation. Note- the asset whom which Manafort was a STATE DEPARTMENT asset.

Podesta and Manafort ACTUALLY WORKED TOGETHER @Treefarmer (2nd link). This is disgusting by any measure. It is the kind of thing that happens in Putin's Russia with the FSB (friend of Putin); not the United States of America.



“ Fiscal Conservative “.....Haha..good one....


Get your point Tagup but pickings are slim for anyone with even a modicum of fiscal constraint in Washington these days...



Seriously Rob? You interpreted that quote to be a reference to Wikipedia? Does the “I didn’t do it – okay I did it but it was not unethical – okay maybe it WAS unethical but everyone does it – okay it might be illegal for someone else but I am above the law so GET OVER IT!” line of reasoning work for you? To me it looks delusional and self-serving, like pretzel logic that insults a person’s intelligence.)

And what have I ever said that leads you to believe I would defend Podesta? (The Business Insider link about him does contain plenty of reinforcement for the validity of the Russian investigation that you have repeatedly referred to as a HOAX though.) Obviously we all view things through our own lens

Re Manafort, he is a creep, a grifter, and a traitor. I know we will never untangle his anti-American activities, but he is a criminal and belongs behind those bars. (Do we know the reason he was held in solitary? I read that it had something to do with protecting him, but the only thing we know for certain that neither of us will ever know what really happened.)

A swamp in Washington? No doubt. That disturbing reality is what made it possible for the current swamp master to transform it down into a sewer and use the existing corruption to make the slime serve his ego-maniacal needs. I grant that he has had plenty of challenges from the existing swamp monsters - they don't relinquish power easily.

Lindsey Graham? He certainly seems skilled at talking out of both sides of his mouth and sucking up to power, but I would trade him in a nanosecond for what we have now. Have you had a look at Bill Weld? He fits the fiscal conservative bill and he is an ethical patriotic American who appears to be blessed with experience, decency, and common sense. Just sayin’.


Agreed about Manafort being a creep but how either of us feel about him isn't the point. Two people working for the same company doing the same job and one connected to the swamp gets off scot free and the other gets ruined and goes to jail. Its not right. Bill Weld on theory might have had potential but he's inflicted with full blown Trump Derangement Syndrome. I want someone who is objective seeing the bigger picture and doesn't think the world is all about Donald Trump.



That inane meme AGAIN, Rob?? Since I have already shared my (rarely) humble opinion that evoking an accusation of “Trump derangement syndrome” is a delusional and lazy way to dismiss valid criticism of dear leader, I will just leave it at that.

But before you decide to write off Mr. Weld, you might want to take a closer look at the flame throwing fraud that is Mark Levin. Now I am aware that Levin has been deemed “The Great One” by that other paragon of lies and deception, Sean Hannity, and that he has the distressing “honor” of having won an *Andrew BREITBART award,* and that he once told a female caller: "I don't know why your husband doesn't put a gun to his temple.” Reviewing that list might motivate one to read the article you cited with an eye for deception. Weld clearly differentiated the U.S. code penalty for treason (death) from the CONSTITUTIONAL penalty for treason which is removal from office. But Levin spun and chopped and puked up a smear on Weld worthy of that other “Great (Orange) One” himself. It is a fact that Trump has, proudly and openly, given “aid and comfort” to America’s enemies. (Take a clear-eyed look at the blood-soaked birthday gift he gave Putin a couple of weeks ago.)

One universal definition of treason is: “the crime of betraying one's country.”
I agree with Bill Weld.


Treefarmer - if I understand correctly you are literally saying making a foreign policy decision to pull troops out of a foreign war in Syria never voted on by congress per the constitution is an executable offense.

Granted, this one decision may possibly benefit Russia (one reason I'm not fond of it) but Trump is on record saying Russia bogged down in that middle eastern quagmire may bring them down like Afghanistan brought down the Soviet Union. That interpretation is completely counter to the assessment that this move helps Russia. Also - I can name half a dozen Trump policy moves(increased US energy & defense, increased NATO spending, lethal aid to Ukraine, Syria cruise missile strikes, ect..) that are definably counter to Russia's interests.


That was ONE example Rob, not sure why you assumed it was the sole basis for observations regarding treason.

I have the impression that you research world events and must know that the dance with Dictator Kim gave him great face and legitimized him on the world stage. And we all watched Trump schmooze his pal Vladmir in Helsinki when our (so-called) leader publicly took Putin’s word over Dan Coats and our intel agencies, or when the two of them later joked and openly mocked the Russian attack on our election, or when Trump not only failed to condemn or sanction MBS over the dismemberment of journalist Jamal Khashoggi - but has since provided our military forces to assist the Saudis while yanking the small group of military advisers from the Syrian border to placate Erdogan and Putin. (Have you seen the reports of how that last disastrous “decision” affected the honor and morale of our troops?) There are any number of other glaring examples but I will stop there.

If you can educate me as to how any of these examples have helped America, or benefited our national security in ANY WAY, or that DIDN’T aid and comfort our adversaries, I will watch this space.


Treefarmer - Treason has a very specific definition under the constitution. You have to be at war. Even the Rosenbergs, who gave atomic secrets to the Soviets, were convicted on espionage. The criminalization of policy differences is an extremely dangerous road of which to travel.



Hey Rob – looks like we have been studying different Constitutions?

In Article 3 - Section 3 TREASON is defined as specific acts (note the plural)

“……levying War against [the United States], OR in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.” (I capitalized the work “OR” for emphasis)

And further:

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason,

(Does this clear up the slanderous lies Levin spewed about Mr. Weld?)


So, based on this logic did Obama commit treason when he declared a red-line in Syria but then failed to follow through? Did he also commit treason when he gave $150B in a deal with the Iranians? A lot of it in cash? We know that Iran was behind a very large percentage of deaths and injuries to our soldiers in Iraq. Did Hillary Clinton commit treason when she gave Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov with a red "reset button"? Until there is a declaration of war against Russia we are not technically enemies. It is a very dangerous slippery slope your on.



Obama with his nose in the air and his supreme air of authority who read his teleprompter like he was a king. Don't miss him or his divisive ways. Hopefully they will all be exposed soon.


Are we having fun yet? Talking past each other is becoming - let’s say – non-productive at best.

It is concerning that you would post Trump’s vindictive propaganda to argue a point, Rob. You assert, (and therefore must believe?) that Obama GAVE money to Iran. Is anyone ever going to tire of being misinformed and then standing up for the lies? A quick fact check reveals the truth – that America OWED a portion of that money for military equipment they bought from the U.S. but never received because relations disintegrated when the shah was overthrown in 1979. The balance of the funds at issue were from Iran’s frozen assets which had been accruing interest. Their money was in international arbitration for years. As part of that arbitration, Iran paid settlements of more than $2.5 billion to U.S. citizens and businesses. THE MONEY WAS THEIRS, Obama simply did the right thing – an inconceivable notion given our current climate of self-dealing and nefarious dishonorable “policies.”


As for the rest of your questions, the idea that red lines and red buttons are relevant to the the discussion is too irrational for a response. And finally, re the slippery slope, we are ALL in serious peril until we can rid ourselves of the cancer in the White House and re-establish some sane and solid ground.


Treefarmer- gave, past tense of give. See 3a : to put into the possession of another for his or her use.

Your conflating a couple of things. The money you cite is the $400M plus interest on the 1979 arms deal. The $150B is money that was frozen. Obama paid the principle and interest, and unfroze the $150B, in a quid pro quo with the Iranians (otherwise known as a negotiated deal). I never made a case for or against this deal. Merely cited it.

>the idea that red lines and red buttons are relevant to the the discussion is too irrational for a response

This is EXACTLY at the heart of the discussion. These are foreign policy and geopolitical decisions constitutionally within the realm of the executive branch of our government. You are accusing Trump of Treason on the basis of his foreign policy and geopolitical decisions though he is the chief executive of the executive branch of our government.



A last word (?) for this this thread. As we all watch the impeachment process exposing the corruption that is corroding our government daily, for some it is an exercise in denial at any cost. The message seems to be that yes – absolutely – it does not matter what this dangerous illegitimate wanna-be king does, you either do not want to know about it, or when you are confronted with proof of that corruption, you find a way to create some bizarre convoluted argument to justify it. The red bubble is the North star.

The dignity and respect for the office we had in the Obama years is offensive to you, Finch? You must prefer chaos. What are you telling your children? It is okay to lie? It is okay to bully? Spreading false malicious commentary is admirable, a sign of strength? When you have power, you are above the law? Are those the values your parents taught you?

Today we were subjected to yet another vile tweet from the throne – heads up to Republicans who aren’t willing to divorce themselves from reality and support the madness – here is the desperate response to your decency:

“YOU ARE HUMAN SCUM. “ (Donald J. Trump)

Former acting AG Whitaker just declared, with a straight face and in all seriousness,”..... abuse of power is NOT a crime.” Trump lawyers just today told the court that NOTHING could be done if their client actually DID shoot someone. “Nothing could be done?” the judge inquired. “That is correct. That is correct.” The Trump lawyer stated the affirmation that their client IS above the law, not once but TWICE. Also today a mob of Republican reps stormed the hearings in an effort to silence the truth. If none of this alarms you I can only hope there is limit to what you will tolerate in service to a false god.


And if the Republicans held meetings behind closed doors and the tables were turned you'd be okay with that I assume your highness treefarmer.

P.S. My adult children are amazing, ethical adults with their thoughts, ideas and morals firmly in place.


The “meetings” are depositions, Finch - all being conducted the same way Nixon and Clinton impeachment proceedings began. The only difference is that the House is doing the investigating this time. (As you are no doubt aware, lapdog Barr was not even slightly interested in pursuing the facts about this scandal.) Republican members on the relevant committees ARE included in the depositions and they have equal time to question the witnesses. The NEXT phase is open hearings.

The House is performing their Constitutional duty just as the Founders intended. As much as you are devoted to dear leader, surely you must acknowledge the need for checks on executive power? I will admit that I once thought Slick Willy was being unfairly pursued by the hounds, but ultimately when the truth came out I could appreciate that those disgusting revelations, and the process itself, were important aspects of the Constitution, WAY more important than my illusions. He had deceived us and we finally saw his true colors. As stated before, I can only hope the facts will help everyone see true colors as this process unfolds. Don’t you ever wonder about the reasons your guy is hell-bent to keep the facts from you? Some perceive that hiding everything is a clear sign of consciousness of guilt. Time will tell.

So you have ADULT children? How fortunate that you were able to raise your family when you didn’t need to mute the TV to protect them from vulgarity and the assault on decency from the mouth and thumbs of their president. How much healthier it used to be when civility and ethics were American values. When someone did something illegal and/or immoral, there were consequences. These days illegal and/or immoral behavior is defended and justified instead of condemned. I do not doubt your children are all you say they are, and probably more. I salute your skill as a parent. So, what are you doing NOW to protect your grandchildren?


I find it funny how the same people who wanted everything public during Mueller now require everything behind closed doors. This process is appalling and unprecedented. It is NOT like the bi-partisan processes voted for by the entire house used for Nixon or Clinton.

- The minority does not have the right to call witnesses
- Though nothing is classified (the transcript is public), the so called hearings are behind closed doors
- No attorney for the president is in attendance, hence, there is no cross-examination. In the past, the president's council was always present.

The slow and public method (Mueller) didn't work as it showed for the nation how unfounded the Russia Collusion Hoax was so now they try something in the quick and dirty in the shadows with selected leaks to build a favorable narrative. This is a Marxist, Star Chamber, joke.


Oh Rob – there you go AGAIN with your wishful HOAX theory. You must think that if you keep repeating it over and over and OVER it will suddenly become fact? The Mueller report (which, in a different forum, you led us to believe you actually read) was indeed an agonizingly slow process, but when you refer to it as PUBLIC you have outdone yourself. Mueller ran an investigation that was tight as a tick. Reporters were reduced to commenting on arrivals and departures from the building because the disciplined former Marine Bob Mueller ran a tight ship that did not leak. And, in spite of the Barr/Trump fantasy proclamation of “NO COLLUSION! NO OBSTRUCTION!.” the only reason the indictments didn’t include dear leader was that handy little departmental memo that forbid it - but only while he remains in office, as Mueller made clear in his testimony.

“….. a Marxist, Star Chamber, joke.” is how you actually view legitimate Constitutional oversight? You believe that “selected leaks” or a “favorable narrative” would amount to diddly squat if the person at issue is as innocent as he keeps telling you he is? And *news flash* the stable genius will be up to his ear lobes in lawyers when the actual trial phase begins in the Senate. He will have the right access all documents, to call witnesses, and to cross-examine anyone and everyone. That’s how it works, and rightly so.

Ironically he constantly whines about being the victim here ......and OMG some people seem to have bought into that lie too.


>former Marine Bob Mueller ran a tight ship that did not leak

Treefarmer - Bob Mueller was clearly barely involved. He didn't even know the very basics of the report that bore his name (e.g. Fusion GPS - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en82UmW2qH8 )

> the only reason the indictments didn’t include dear leader was that handy little departmental memo that forbid it

That is false. Mueller clarified it in the 2nd part of testimony that day. They didn't reach a determination one way or another. It wasn't the OLC opinion.



ALSO - speaking of Fusion GPS, the opposition research firm hired by the Clintons/DNC to get dirt on Trump

Now that we know that Joseph Mifsud was a western intelligence asset AND Paul Manafort's supposed Russian connection in Ukraine was an American State Department asset it seems the only Russian left is the lawyer that met with Don Jr. at Trump Tower. There's a BIG problem with her though - she met BEFORE and AFTER the meeting with FUSION GPS. That's called a setup.


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