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Letters to the editor: Sept 20, 2019

Time for action on guns

I appreciated Scott Schieber taking the time from his practice and his new life in New Zealand to compose a guest editorial about gun violence in America.

It was one of the best articles I have read conveying the urgent need for better gun control. I think most of us were equally impressed — perhaps even envious — with the swift action on the part of the New Zealand parliament in banning automatic and semi-automatic weapons after the mass shooting in Christchurch. 

Scott did an excellent job explaining why is it so hard in America to relinquish the assault weapons that are killing so many and spreading fear like wildfire.  Guns have become too personal, to the point of being viewed as a patriotic identity. Fear has taken over, especially with the NRA and its unwillingness to look through a broader, more compassionate lens.  

My husband owns guns. He was raised to be a hunter and continues to enjoy the sport.

I don’t like guns, but I understand my husband’s right to own a gun for hunting. Thankfully, we both agree there should be a ban on all assault weapons. 

When I read Dr. Schieber’s article, it reminded me how important it is to do what we can. Rather than watching in horror and feeling helpless, we must do what we can. If we don’t continue to build momentum for banning assault weapons, people will continue to be gunned down by lunatics and we will forever live in fear. 

My husband and I spent a lot of time in Australia. Gun laws there are similar to New Zealand’s.

Australia, too, has a federally funded gun buyback programs and voluntary surrender program.

Those who want to own a gun must — among several other things, including pay a hefty annual fee — demonstrate a “genuine reason” for owning a gun. And self-defense is not considered a genuine reason.

We had several discussions with our Aussie friends about guns and Trump. I was struck by how obvious the right thing to do was, at least for the Aussies. 

Moms Demand Action is a grassroots movement of Americans fighting for public safety measures that can protect people from gun violence. If you’d like to take action, check out the website at momsdemandaction.org/about.

You do not have to be a mom to join, just a person who cares about the future of our children.  

Karen Willard

McMinnville

 

Classic liberal hyperbole

Susan Tiffany’s Sept. 6 letter represents classic liberal hyperbole.

She accuses President Trump of Nazi-like genocide because some immigrants died trying to enter the U.S. illegally. In Germany, the Nazis deliberately killed their own citizens and people they conquered.

No Central American immigrants have been deliberately killed by our government. They have died as a result of their own decisions and actions, thus must be held personally responsible and accountable.

Her Trail of Tears analogy is also inaccurate.

The term refers to the tragic death of American Indians forced to march west for resettlement after losing a war with the U.S. government. The Central American immigrants were not forced to march to the U.S.; it was their choice.

After being caught and deported, they are bussed or flown home. No forced marching occurs.

Her comment that Trump’s own words and actions indicate he craves dictatorial powers is misleading.

I assume she pulled it from a June 2018 article in the Huffington Post, headlined, “Donald Trump Really Wishes He Were a Dictator.” The article pieced together quotes by Trump about real dictators.

He never said he craved dictatorial powers. But if he does crave those powers, I don’t blame him, based on Democrats’ vowed resistance to his election platform and refusal to compromise or cooperate.

Tiffany questioned why religious leaders don’t do more to push moral, ethical and humanitarian issues. Maybe it’s because they are preoccupied fighting abortion and the rise of infanticide, falsely pushed by the left as a women’s health right.

I do agree on one thing — our democratic principles are at risk. It started with President Obama behaving like a czar, using executive orders in lieu of compromise. It continued with Democrats refusing to recognize Donald Trump as president.

I encourage readers to challenge the unsubstantiated statements liberals present as facts.

Randy Johnson

McMinnville

 

America First fallout

“This too shall pass.” It’s a simple, familiar phrase with huge implications.

As you read this, you are taking part in a huge experiment. I would characterize it this way: “What happens if we divide the human world into us and them? I wonder how the earth would respond if we ignored its needs in favor of our own?”

There’s nothing wrong with experimenting. It’s an important way to learn. It’s how we arrived where we are.

Like all experiments, though, there is room for a lot of unknowns and unintended consequences. Like all experiments, we could stop it at any time, the “we” being a majority of everyone involved.

We just need to be aware that this experiment is global, with long-lasting effects.

At some point, the “stop” button may cease to work. Then it will no longer be an experiment, but a new reality.

In that event, “This too shall pass” will no longer apply.

Darrell King

McMinnville

 

Bill poses imminent threat

The Patient’s Rights Act — S. 1993, now in Senate committee — is designed to thwart abortion decisions, advanced healthcare directives, family provider orders for life-sustaining treatment and death with dignity assistance. It would force hospitals to push advanced full-code technology from conception to grave, else be forced to forfeit a year’s worth of federal support and reimbursement, effectively shutting them down.

Be aware that advanced technology cannot fix a brain lost to dementia. Advanced technology can even bring on dementia through means such as prolonged exposure to general anesthesia.

And without a functioning brain, living “good enough” becomes existing poorly. To force the frail elderly through unwanted surgeries and rehab is cruel, particularly when dementia is involved.

Say NO to becoming a live donor simply to fuel the medical system coffers.

Say NO to being warehoused in a unsafe, locked-down and notoriously understaffed facility at $92,000 a year, if not more.

Say NO to ending up on Medicaid, as 63% of U.S. elders currently are, thus facing costs that could be passed on to your adult children as collateral once the Filial Recovery Act is activated. This act is ready to launch in 34 states that no longer can afford the many elders on their rolls, including Oregon.

The Patient’s Rights Act grows out of greed and political backlash to current law. Contact your senator now and ask that he or she say NO to S. 1993.

Bev Montgomery

McMinnville  

 

Comments

Mike

Mr. Johnson. I agree with you about the hyperbole language of commentary, I see hyperbole on both sides of the political spectrum. I'm sure you do to. It is also evident you have a strong moral stance regarding abortion. From that I assume you have very high moral and ethical standards. And it is clear you are defending President Trump. You seem to be okay with his character. I accept his behavior does not bother you. You are fine with him boasting about grabbing women by their genitals, you are okay with his many bankruptcies, you understand it is just good business to go bankrupt now and then and sue the hardworking contractors you refuse to pay and finally you do not mind that he lies because he is just being himself. But Mr. Johnson where you got me, because I assume you are a good God fearing American, where you me is when you said "if he does crave those powers, (being a Dictator) I don’t blame him," This justified by the resistance of Democrats. Comrade Johnson I am stunned. We are America the greatest human experiment based on separation of powers and the rule of law. You Comrade are okay with our leader wanting to be a Dictator. As our President might say, there are a number of countries with Dictators you might consider moving. Comrade, you might be more comfortable there.

Finch

Mike - Randy Johnson said no such thing. Those are your interpretations and reading between the lines. I thought it was an excellent letter but I know treefarmer will soon be chiming in praising your letter and agreeing with many of your points.

Funny you claim President Trump acts like a dictator. Did you feel the same way when Obama thought he was king and bowed to our enemies?

Mike

Fitch I didn't claim Trump acted like a dictator. I reacted to Comrade Johnson's not blaming Trump for wanting to be a dictator. I was astonished Johnson who I assume supports Trump and who is also a loyal American would be okay with the President who wanted to be a dictator. And that is what Johnson said. I care less about Obama, he made his deal to get elected, got the money folks, the banks, and Wall Street out of hock when they gambled away our future in 2008.

Don Dix

Karen Willard -- The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the individual right to keep and bear arms. That's the foremost and original reason for gun ownership, which has been re-affirmed several times.

And good luck with 'a hefty annual fee' -- that would take a re-write and change the 2nd Amendment -- as well as how much trouble it would be finding guns that that have been passed down from relatives for generations (read - not registered). Many of those owners would simply be silent.

tagup

I find it interesting that Mr Johnson feels Obama was “behaving like a Czar” when he used federal executive orders to move his agenda. Yet Trump (46/year) is averaging more executive orders per year than Obama (35/yr)....It seems Mr Johnson thinks our democratic principles are at risk only when the other party does it.....

Don Dix

tagup -- all of our principals are at risk anytime elected officials are in office -- and sometimes when they are not.

treefarmer


What an enigma that fellow citizens, who still support our current corrupt administration and the pathological narcissist who runs it, seem to have at least some familiarity with the deceit and reprehensible behavior and continue to believe none of it matters. (i.e……. but the job numbers look good, or……….since the liar-in-chief hasn’t yet destroyed the financial system Obama rescued for us, why worry that America is being perverted and our national security is being dangerously undermined?) Better to whine about the posting of facts, or continue to post ALTERNATIVE facts, or blame the press for reporting the ugly truth. (Shooting the messenger changes nothing.) It must require some serious discipline to ignore the overwhelming number and nature of REAL facts, or to concoct a murky brew of convoluted Fox-logic to justify the constant degradation of our Constitution, and the rule of law. Incomprehensible.

Pelosi just announced that she is moving forward with Articles of Impeachment. As much as I am concerned about the ordeal this will cause an already deeply divided nation, it appears to be our only hope to rein in the fraud and corruption before it is too late. In the beginning we rebelled against a king, now it is past time to use the tools the Founders gave us to rid our country of a naked emperor.

Oh – I almost forgot: Great post, Mike! Well said, tagup! (wouldn’t want to disappoint any small birds, eh)


Finch

Ground hog day.

RobsNewsRegister

Treefarmer. I just read the Ukrainian transcript (see link). After the Charlottesville Lie I like to go to the transcript myself. From what I can tell, the president starts off talking about corruption and then inquires about Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election that got Manifort fired (see Hill story) and kicked the Russia Hoax into a higher gear (he mentions Mueller). The president then follows it up commenting on Biden bragging about getting the Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating Hunter Biden fired.

I will agree the president needs to be more careful with his words and appears to have crossed a line, though not an impeachable line. There is no quid-pro-quo or threat. However, do you do know what Biden did?

See the Federalist link - he bragged about giving the Ukrainians until he left on a plane to fire the prosecutor or they wouldn't get a billion dollars of aid. His son, who was kicked out of the military because of a cocaine addiction, had no energy experience but was getting $60K/month on the board of a corrupt Ukrainian energy company. That same son, Hunter, also inked a billion dollar deal with China on a trip to China with dad on Air Force Two. Does this not sound like blatant quid-pro-quo and nepotism?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-transcript-call/index.html

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/435029-as-russia-collusion-fades-ukrainian-plot-to-help-clinton-emerges

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/24/watch-joe-biden-brag-about-bribing-ukraine-to-fire-the-prosecutor-investigating-his-sons-company/

treefarmer

There is clearly NO LIMIT to how low the despot will go to abuse his power and use the Department of (now fully corrupted) Justice to do his malignant bidding. The plot thickens and the American people are learning the extent to which we are being screwed daily. (I do acknowledge that “the base” is enjoying it, defending it, and resenting that anyone DARES to call it out for what it is.) In spite of the willing enablers, and the desperate ploy to use Biden as a smoke screen, I finally have a glimmer of hope that the Congress is on track to expose and address the massive corruption. After all, Nixon had AG John Mitchell in his pocket too and history proves that wasn’t enough to prevent the truth from coming out.

Finch

You have got to be kidding or in desperate need of medication. Biden is in his own trouble of his own making and you can deny it. Further, the entire Russian hoax with the FBI was all started during the previous administration and heads all the way to the top (you understand who that is, right?) Are being exposed. This is completely insane because the Democrats so filled with hate will stop at nothing in their complete desperation to take him down to secure the 2020 win and turn us into complete socialists. Game on!

RobsNewsRegister

You saw the Biden video right? I'm with Finch - game on. However, if the president is investigated we need to also FULLY investigate the Obama administration and the Clinton campaign for what happened in 2016. If somehow what the president did is a crime, then a whole lot of people in the Obama administration and Clinton campaigns need to go to jail. They were getting foreign help to interfere in the 2016 election (Ukraine, UK, Australia, Russia [Steele dossier], and others) in spades.

treefarmer


All the nasty insults, all the denial, all the attempts to distract - none of it is going to change the reality. But of course you are free to keep spinning the facts and buying the lies. We all have the benefit of the First Amendment.

Bill B

@treefarmer; You claim to always stick to the facts, but I have yet to see any facts in your comments on this thread or any others. You do need to get some new material; the reruns are getting old.

Finch

Although it's clear I lean to the right I believe in fairness and justice for ALL not one side or the other. Never has the hatred for a president been more vile than these past three years with these Democrats and the media who are one and the same -- in bed together in refusing to report the news fairly. Sickening.

Plus, tens of millions of hard earned tax dollars on this witch hunt when that money could have been spent on many more things to help and assist actual Americans. These people that are voted in to represent us do no such thing. Personal vendettas.

tagup

“Never has the hatred towards a president been more vile...”....you mean except for the Republicans toward Obama....?

RobsNewsRegister

Treefarmer- didn't you read the transcript posted on CNN? Please note this is the day after Robert Mueller demonstrated he had little to nothing to do with the investigation that bore his name during his Capital Hill testimony.

1. When the president asks about a favor he's talking about looking into the Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election. The interference helped the Clinton campaign and got his campaign manager at the time fired. That is significant interference. We investigated Russia-Trump interference in 2016 ad nauseum, shouldn't we investigate this as well?
2. It is the Ukrainian president who first brings up Giuliani that leads into discussion about Biden bragging about getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired (Giuliani has been pressing this issue publicly). It appears Joe Biden may have obstructed justice and bribed the Ukrainian government to protect his son (I don't blame him in a way - who wouldn't protect their kid). Reminds me of Michael Flynn copping a plea with the FBI to protect his son.

I call for a Special Council to look into this and everything else to do with the 2016 election including the Clinton paid for Steele dossier based on Russian supplied disinformation. Normally I am against a special council getting anywhere near a sitting president (Bill Clinton included), but since there's going to be an impeachment investigation anyway lets get on with it!

Mike

"What About?" "Hey. What About? Wonderful question to change the subject. You all are very good at it. Look back 4 years. Look at anything but the present. Good what to misdirect. Don't look at what's going on now. It is not as important as what happened before. And that guy is worse the anyone else, and look he is running for president. Never mind folks like Comrade Johnson are okay with the current occupant wanting to be a Dictator. Are you all okay with the current occupant wanting to be a Dictator because of how awful and mean the opposition is? Is that okay with you?

Bill B

Mike, you need to take a pill!

Finch

Tagup - Obama may have been charming (not my opinion) but we had his number. However, the press, the democrats and damn near every celebrity wet themselves over every breath he took.

tagup

“We had his number”...?.....Is that code for non- cooperation ?

And you complain about the treatment trump has received?.....hmmm....

RobsNewsRegister

There is an active investigation going on by the inspector general into the beginnings of the 'Russia Investigation'. This is what the president was referring to when he asks for a favor (see page three of the transcript). This isn't any different than the Democratic senators' letter to Ukraine last year during the Russia probe (see 2nd link). When the two countries leaders talked about Biden 500 words later he directed any cooperation through the AG. It would be the AGs job to determine legality and not venture down any illegal roads. Donald Trump isn't a lawyer.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-ukraine-call-transcript-read-the-document

https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/5-4-18%20Menendez%20joint%20letter%20to%20General%20Prosecutor%20of%20Ukraine%20on%20Mueller%20investigation.pdf

tagup

Just guessing, but I doubt the whistleblower thought that....

treefarmer


If it wasn’t so grave and depressing, all this cult-like defense of blatant corruption would be almost amusing. Obviously at least one of you does not actually read my posts before depositing your snark. This is likely because it is easier – and lazier - to ignore the documenting information I have posted all over this site than it would be to come up with a rational way to refute something you don’t like. (Shall we ask the finch about this? She hates facts and complains frequently that I post TOO MANY of them.) Make up your minds people!

To those here who continue to defend the desecrater of democracy, the “dear leader” who demands that his followers suspend common sense and swallow WHOLE his 12,000+ lies, the con man who has defiled the Constitution and fleeced all of us while lining his own pockets, I predict there will come a time when you will be extremely grateful for your anonymity.

And to those who love to trash Obama, I have said on more than one occasion that I did not agree with every one of his policies and actions, but he was a decent intelligent thoughtful family man who served America well and faithfully during his eight years in our White House. He brought dignity to the office and respect for America on the world stage. He actually valued our national security. The EXACT OPPOSITE of the scandal-ridden mess we have now. But oh that’s right, Obama was a black man and as such didn’t merit the slightest recognition for his service. Instead he deserved that racist birtherism BS, and the repulsive signs depicting him as a witch doctor with a bone in his nose, and most of all, the mandate from McConnell - on day one - that no one was to EVER work with him. Anyone need to look up the definition of hypocrisy?

RobsNewsRegister

'The IG’s review found "some indicia of an arguable political bias on the part of the Complainant in favor of a rival political candidate."' That is from WSJ's Kim Strassel. So we know there was potentially some political motivation. If this person supports a Democrat, whom do they support? In the end, this will likely hurt Biden possibly ending his campaign as it shines a light on some shady dealings with him and his son. I don't know if we will ever find out but I would be willing to bet this person is a Sanders or Warren supporter.

Finch

Oops, the race card -- what a surprise. When I first heard Obama speak at the DNC convention I was quite impressed. Then his actions and intentions became clear and I couldn't stand him. World stage? He divided this country with world leaders and his actions. He crippled our military in multiple ways. He traded a deserter for criminals. We all have our opinions but my personal distaste for that man and his administration in no way, shape or form had to do with skin color.

tagup

He “divided this country with world leaders”....”He crippled our military in multiple ways”

Wouldn’t redirecting pentagon funds for a wall, and pulling out of treaties and insulting our allies amount to the same thing?......You “couldn’t stand” Obama for those things....why do you support trump?

RobsNewsRegister

As I study the transcript and learn this is a hearsay complaint from a partisan bureaucrat, I am no longer convinced the president did anything wrong. He and the president of the Ukraine are discussing Ukraine's efforts to clean up rampant corruption in Ukraine. According to the constitution (article 2), the president is the chief law enforcer of the United States. It is perfectly reasonable for him speak about a potential investigation of corruption by a former U.S. official. If the president himself can be investigated for nearly three years by a special council, why can't a politician who hasn't yet earned a nomination be investigated? If this is wrong, you have to explain to me how investigating the Trump campaign during the throws of the 2016 election was OK.

tagup

So the whistleblower is a partisan bureaucrat?....you don’t even know who it is....
and yes,the president withholding military funding for a personal political favor is unethical and possibly illegal.....by the way, the Ukraininan investigation of Biden is closed, with no findings of wrongdoing....and has been for quite a while...

RobsNewsRegister

The IG declared potential political bias, not me. Where in the transcript is the quid-pro-quo to withhold funding? They are talking about a new, uncorrupted, prosecutor coming on board in September in Ukraine. That likely explains the timing of this leak - to get out in front of what's coming.

A case closed by a corrupt government official isn't closed. The new Ukrainian president ran, and was elected on, ending rampant corruption in his country. He is an outsider like Trump trying to drain his swamp. What you are seeing now is the latest attack by DC swamp against the president.

tagup

Yuri Lutsenko The Ukraininan prosector and successor to Viktor Shokin has stated that Hunter Biden did not run afoul of any laws in the Ukraine.....trump was advocating reopening an investigation for his political benefit.....so why were the Ukraininan funds delayed?....a country that is resisting aggression from Russia.....

Mike

I was just reading the whistle blower complaint, what has be released. There is more to it which is still classified. When you read the complaint do not skip over the parts about the allegations made about Biden which are later refuted and untrue. Never mind that silly detail. The over all impression is the current occupant was using his office and power for his personal gain. Just as pig boy Clinton involved a consenting young woman for his personal ... And that got him trouble in the House full of the other party. And like then, the Senate will protect the current occupant. Pig Boy Clinton situation at least did not involve our national security.

RobsNewsRegister

Its pretty clear on the video though there is a typo - it happened in 2016(see link). You really think this shouldn't be investigated by someone from the United States? I could always use the line used against the president during the Russia investigation, if there's nothing to hide than why not an investigation?

Joe Biden Brags about getting Ukranian Prosecutor Fired
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY

tagup

And what would be the jurisdictional basis for a US run investigation in another sovereign country?...and one that has already been completed ?....of course other than the subject is related to the likely opponent in the presidents upcoming election.


RobsNewsRegister

You did see the video of Joe Biden bragging openly about getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired in six hours right? It isn't the only, nor the most recent, Democrat threat to Ukraine. What Chris Murphy D-Conn did is what quid-pro-quo and threats to pull aid actually looks like. I notice that Democrats often project onto their political enemies what they themselves have done or are doing (e.g. collusion with Russian intelligence with Steele dossier).

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/462658-lets-get-real-democrats-were-first-to-enlist-ukraine-in-us-elections

tagup

so ......what does any of that have to do with trumps conversation ?.....Deflection from the facts of trumps indiscretions with a bunch of unrelated issues doesn’t justify his actions....

RobsNewsRegister

There is no quid-pro-quo in the transcript and money was released to Ukraine even though there has been no new investigation into Biden in Ukraine. Where is the quid, pro, & quo?

RobsNewsRegister

>And what would be the jurisdictional basis for a US run investigation in another sovereign country?...

FYI - there is a treaty that allows this. See link. https://www.congress.gov/106/cdoc/tdoc16/CDOC-106tdoc16.pdf

tagup

There isn’t a need for a quid pro quo for an impeachment proceeding....

Lindsey Graham made a statement that I agree with...” A president doesn’t even have to be convicted of a crime to be impeached.....Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”......unfortunately, he made it in 1999......

Bill B

Ms. Treefarmer says; ".....swallow WHOLE his 12,000+ lies, the con man who has defiled the Constitution and fleeced all of us while lining his own pockets"

So theses are facts, huh?

RobsNewsRegister

Actually, according to NBC, as of last year, Donald Trump has lost a billion dollars since becoming president. One reason I like him more than before. As we are well aware, politicians who go to Washington DC and their extended families (read Hunter Biden) usually greatly profit and come out MUCH richer. They don't call it 'The Swamp' for nothing.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/trump-has-lost-1-billion-personal-wealth-running-president-n916221

Mike

You read the memo/transcript of the conversation, right? Say I withhold money from you and your country. Then I call you and say "do me a favor". What favor? Well look into Biden (I don't need to tell you why or say there is a Biden running against me) and do another thing talk to my personal lawyer Rudy about that investigation, and maybe even the Attorney General of the US. Now those are the only to favors I ask for. No big deal. Reach for where the national interest is in those questions. What would you think I wanted? Just to be friendly. There isn't anything about my personal lawyer that is anything but my personal hireling. Nothing national interest. But it is okay. That is the way good guys, solid American behave.

RobsNewsRegister

I've read through the transcript from two sources (sorry - I don't trust CNN any more so double checked). The 'favor' is earlier in the conversation to look into the origins of the Russia Hoax, much of which spawned in Ukraine (Politico link). The Biden stuff is later in the conversation after the Ukrainian president brings up Giuliani's name first. The case against Biden is looking worse and worse and earlier cover stories are being shown false (Hill link). Biden's candidacy may be over. Giuliani was instructed to contact the Ukrainians by the State department (Kurt Volker - you can see the text message online).
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/463307-solomon-these-once-secret-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story

treefarmer

Just caught up on this discussion and nothing surprises me anymore. The US bully-in-chief withholds duly authorized financial aid to strong-arm a vulnerable new leader in his vulnerable country – (where another bully - neighbor Vlad - has already stolen land and is threatening the very existence of the struggling democracy) – and after who knows how many other nefarious contacts - proceeds to enlist the assistance of his corrupt staff and corrupt AG to lock down all evidence of that “perfect beautiful call.” Thank God for the brave and patriotic whistle-blower! Do you not care, or even wonder why they orchestrated such an elaborate cover-up? (Of course this is just the one that we know about.) The faithful are very busy finding incredible ways to spin this treacherous behavior into something perfectly honorable and justifiable. (while denying that they swallow the lies hook, line, and sinker.) Have at it, Trumpers. Obviously you feel safe and proud to be represented in this way, but the rest of us find it perilous and reprehensible. The aberrant abuse of power is only going to escalate as long as the base and your GOP reps in Congress continue to defend and/or excuse it.

p.s. to Finch - You have published many disparaging comments about our last President but as much exception as I have taken to those opinions, I have never once seen any indication that you hold racist beliefs. But if you think stating facts is playing some race card I guess you are not aware that race was a major factor in the vile and vulgar attacks Obama endured as our President? Is it possible you never heard the deplorable birtherism slurs, or saw the signs with the witch doctor, or those depicting a lynching? (Not to mention that that the Secret Service had to bulk up the troops because the white supremacists declared their intention to assassinate that “sub-human” black President.) No "cards” were played, this is not a game.



RobsNewsRegister

Of course. The 'cover up' game. In an unprecedented move, the transcript of a phone call between the president of the United States and a foreign leader was made public only two months after the conversation. I believe this is the first time that has EVER happened. If the conversation was so bad, why did Adam Schiff resort to a parody yesterday instead of reading straight from the transcript during his Emmy worthy performance at the hearing?

treefarmer


Wow Rob…..you view this as a GAME? I ask again, are you perfectly fine with the fact that your guy and his enablers were so concerned about the Ukraine communications (that contained absolutely NO classified national security info) that they locked it (and who knows what else) away on a server that could only be accessed by a very few folks with top TOP secret security clearances? You are not able to read it now because the liar-in-chief is open and honest, our access to the sordid facts is due to one courageous patriot (currently being desperately demonized from the right) who placed country ahead of loyalty to the king. Surely you remember that it was not the treasonous criminal behavior that put the final nail in Nixon’s coffin, it was the COVER-UP. But I assume you will continue to find creative ways to justify the continuing assault on the Constitution and the rule of law. I think I understand – even just the tip of this iceberg is an American nightmare……… painful to accept and unsettling live with.

Jim

Mike, tagup and treefarmer take a chill pill or you’re going to have a medical emergency from all the stress.

Finch

No kidding Jim!

Someone obviously never heard Obama telling that guy on a hot mic "tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the next election".

Regarding servers - what's your opinion treefarmer of Hillary destroying 30,000 of her emails and bleach biting hers and destroying them with hammers? If the feds came knocking on your door I don't imagine they would allow you to browse your email history and decide what they could and could not see. Yes, this was the previous administration but while you're setting yourself up for a heart attack you're not recognizing your own hypocrisy in many of your statements and accusations.

RobsNewsRegister

Evidently, the president doesn't know how quid-pro-quo works. Usually, you inform the other party of your demand. No one told the Ukrainians about it (link) and its not in the transcript. He could take some lessons from Joe Biden- "I'm leaving in six hours, if the prosecutor is not fired you're not getting the money.." That is verbatim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukrainian-official-appears-to-cast-doubt-on-quid-pro-quo-claim

As far as locking up the transcript, that practice started in 2017 after two of the president's phone calls to world leaders were leaked (Mexico, Australia). Phone call happened 7/25. August recess. Govt starts back up in September. Request for transparency. Transcript released 9/25. There was no cover up. That is pretty darn fast for the government.

tagup

Thanks for your concern Jim....I’m fine..no stress....if you don’t like what I post....don’t read it...

RobsNewsRegister

Treefarmer - this is far from a GAME. Using another geopolitical tactic, thus forcing the release of a transcript with a foreign leader, creates a terrible precedent. You can bet Putin is already using details from the conversation to drive a wedge between NATO and Ukraine. What foreign leader can now talk openly to an American president? The national security implications of this may turn out significant.

The Russia Hoax helped kick-start Cold War 2.0 and pushed Russia into a quasi alliance with the PRC that grows stronger by the day. I can go into detail if you'd like. I am still pondering implications of what happened this week though more time is needed to better understand the geopolitical fallout.

treefarmer


Hey tagup – how touching to read about all the concern for our health, eh? We don’t suppose it has anything to do with an allergy to facts, do we? (or it could be related to the “ostrich syndrome?”) Either way, I will resist diagnosing or suggesting treatment until there is additional information available.

Rob - YOUR WORDS: "The 'cover up' game." Make up your mind.

RobsNewsRegister

When there's no there, there, they scream 'cover up'. That's the game. The geopolitical fallout the last few years isn't.

Take yourself back to the histrionics' after Trump's win. 'Act of War' was the catch-phrase as relations with Russia were sacrificed on the alter of getting Trump. Consequences be damned. That started a tit-for-tat. We kick people out, they kick, we close consulates, they close, we force media registration, they force.

Pro-Western Russians were knee-capped. The hawks took over and looked east. Unfortunately, this coincided with Xi consolidating power in China while seeking to increase China's sphere of influence.

2017: First time PLAN ships (Chinese navy) exercise with the Russians in the Baltic Sea.
2018: Vostok 2018. Largest Russian military exercise since the Cold War. China participated. I can explain that away as the exercise was in the east; not however with what or how. They practiced Chinese troops under Russian command and for the first time let the Russian's get close to their top tank (Type 99).
2019: Russian president isn't invited to 75th D-Day celebration in France. More Russia Hoax fallout. Putin's response. Sign a 5G contract with Xi/Huawei on June 6th. Though he said publicly the insult was no big deal (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48548200), on June 7th, when a Russian destroyer nearly collided with an American guided missile cruiser, we learned how the Russian's really felt. One of the reason's I focus on actions, not words.

This summer they practiced flying AWACs and nuclear bombers together. I just hope we get off this myopic 'get Trump at any cost' train before it causes too much more geopolitical damage.

Finch

Rob - No one has done more to provide a variety of information than you. As you can see, she will have none of it but instead keeps talking about the damn facts but only ones she believes to be true. Actually she spends more time venting with not many facts.

Did you hear all the new information from John Soloman and others? I've said it before and it has been proven that George Soros money is behind so much of this. Of course when I brought that up in the past I got the stupid "EGAD" comment. I've said, when minds don't agree with the left they are completely closed and do not want to hear a word. You are correct that Adam Schiff did nothing but read a manufactured script they say was probably written by an attorney. The whistleblower is really not a whistleblower. Schiff should be ashamed and embarrassed about being punked about two years ago while thinking he was getting that damning evidence about Trump and salivating over it.

This is complete insanity. How they think Biden and his son Hunter did nothing wrong is amazing as well. If that was Trump making those threats and one of his sons was making hundreds of millions of dollars for something they knew nothing about they would be out of their minds.

This stuff is crazy!

RobsNewsRegister

Still trying to catch up with all that is coming out. It now appears the intelligence community recently changed the whistleblower rule so complaints don't have to be first hand. This complaint wouldn't have qualified under the old rules. That sounds fishy to me.

gregtompkins

I think he did it all on purpose as part of his “drain the swamp” project. When it gets to the Senate really watch the fur fly when they start interrogating the other side for THEIR corruption! This president has only been in politics for a short time and he’s already made a laughing stock of the totally rotten establishment. Oh and BTW enemies detect weakness and if we are divided it wouldn’t surprise me if China nukes us and it would be well deserved!

RobsNewsRegister

Luckily, I don't think we are at risk of nuclear war with China at the moment, though they will be unveiling their new ICBM (DF-41) in a couple of days at the October 1st parade. With the end of the INF (intermediate nuclear range ) treaty the world could quickly become a far more dangerous place though. Instead of the 20-30 minute flight time for a ICBM, you have 5-6 until impact. Tends to put forces on hair-trigger alerts.

Gorbachev/Reagan feared this class of weapon which is why they fought their respective Deep States and got a treaty in 1987. Rumors have it they even discussed total elimination of nuclear weapons. Trump tried to broach three way U.S.-Russia-China arms control talks with Putin a few months ago but the Russia Hoax still dominated even after the Mueller report (see link). These negotiations should have started day one of the administration to save the INF treaty but had to wait for the Mueller Report. There is real work to be done but the administration keeps getting tied down with hoaxes, exaggerations, and leaks, like this 'whistleblower' complaint. What world leader is going to frankly discuss a nuclear arms treaty with our president now?

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-putin-mueller-report-venezuela-north-korea-20190503-story.html

gregtompkins

RobsNewsRegister it’s only a matter of time before the USA gets nuked. And that will make all the progressives absurd concerns about the illegals and climate change all go away! I really think this is where it’s headed. Everyone distracted and involved with witch hunts and we get struck by a nuclear attack while the infighting is going on.

gregtompkins

Heck the Democrats and their vile Rusophobia will likely make that country , too , want to attack us. Sleeping Bears don’t like to be poked with sticks.

RobsNewsRegister

Finch- Thanks for the complement.
Greg - Until INF class weapons are deployed to Europe, I think our biggest WMD threat may be an EMP attack from N Korea knocking out our electrical grid and electronics. Mutually assured destruction should (cross fingers) keep the big powers in line unless a proxy war gets out of hand. Russia/China are in agreement with you and believe infighting is our Achilles heel and the key to beating America.

We know N Korea has Soviet EMP designs. Their missiles, designed with help from unemployed Soviet engineers, are impressive. This is why Rep. Cumming's decision to parade Michael Cohen for testimony the day president Trump was in Vietnam to convince N. Korea to give up her nukes was reprehensible. Tough sanctions, Vietnam trade deal to sign in front of Kim, and China constrained via trade; all came to not. Trump tried to show Kim what N Korea could become as Vietnam is still a communist country. Some things are above partisan politics, risk of nuclear war is one of them.

RobsNewsRegister

I was worried about that (first link)- it looks like the Chinese are increasing their nuclear arsenal now. We'll have to see if they want nuclear parody with Russia/U.S. and really ramp up their numbers. The other parts of their nuclear triad are finalizing as well (2nd/3rd links). DC is wasting valuable time trying to nip Cold War 2.0 in the bud instead of focusing on getting the orange man.

https://apnews.com/ca6f789c8b95493ba0a3327a042da596
https://www.janes.com/article/85578/china-conducts-first-jl-3-slbm-launch
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a19724568/china-stealth-bomber-render/

gregtompkins

I just don’t get it why the left seems driven to nosedive the US and similarly the ones in Europe are doing this also. The loving embrace of Muslims even though they want to throw LGBT off tall buildings, kowtowing to the illegals to our detriment (high cost of living, pay for all their “free” stuff then deluded themselves and everyone they don’t get any subsidy,) instigate Rusophobia, embrace globalism by chasing away all our industry and then bellyache about pollution, environmental degradation and plastic globalism brings. None of this makes any sense unless their goal really is to collapse the country to usher in their vision of progressive one world government utopian dream! I think we will all be annihilated if this leftist vitriol keeps up.

Randy

Thanks to Finch for his comments on Sep 22, which I support. To Mike, I was indicating that IF Trump craved dictatorial powers that I would understand his frustration with the Resistance and his desire to get things done. However, understanding and supporting are two different things. Obviously, dictatorship is not a viable or supportable real option.

To “tagup”, the difference between Presidents Obama and Trump on executive orders is that Obama had full support from Congress when he was elected, but he blew it with the one-sided Obamacare cram-down and the resulting loss of a Democrat majority in the Congress. Although elected as the great uniter, he became the great divider. In comparison, Trump faced the resistance of Dems and some RINOs even before he took office. This left him with few options to pursue in order to enact his campaign promises. Interestingly, he has benefited from Obama’s precedent of governing via executive order. The downside is that Trump’s accomplishments could be short lived if a Democrat replaces him.

tagup

Randy- trump had republican control until January of this year as I recall.

As far as Obama being a “divider”...I think McConnel’s meeting with his caucus on the first day of Obama’s presidency had something to do with that...don’t you?
Obama used executive orders for the exact same reason as your justification of trump’s.

Clearly, trump hasn’t brought anyone together in his tenure either, so really, most of your argument against Obama can be made for trump as well.....

So my question is if you didn’t like it from Obama why is it ok for trump?

treefarmer


Hello Mike and tagup – this “conversation” will probably fall off the read/commented list soon so before that happens I wanted to leave an interesting nugget I read in a Leonard Pitts column recently. He advises that behavioral scientists theorize we are “hardwired” to prefer the comfort of the lie to the challenge of the truth. That would seem to put a lot of what is written above in perspective? Even so, I remain hopeful and appreciate the fact that the challenge of truth remains preferable to some of us even when it is (decidedly) uncomfortable. (Much damage results when lies and false logic are allowed to fester unopposed.) I will look forward to reading your comments in future threads.

RobsNewsRegister

Those on the political left. I get it. You don't like the bad orange man, but darn it, do you really think it was acceptable to interfere in negotiations to de-nuclearize the Korean peninsula (see link below)? The Democratic chair moved that Cohen hearing three times so to line up with the N Korea negotiations. I was absolutely dumbfounded at the lack of perspective. There is little question Cummings put party over country that day.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-blames-congress-for-michael-cohen-hearing-during-kim-summit-2019-2

treefarmer


More comfortable now?

Finch

Rob - and Elijah Cummings is on the oversight committee and his wife is being investigated for fraud with her charity. De Blasio's wife is involved in something with her work where millions and millions of dollars are unaccounted for. These are but two examples of people in high offices all high and mighty judging others when they themselves have skeletons to hide.

Have you followed Peter Schweizer's new book and his many interviews on the Joe and Hunter Biden Ukraine dealings? The left doesn't acknowledge any of it.

Bill B

68 or now 69 comments later and I doubt anyone has changed their opinion.

RobsNewsRegister

Treefarmer- nice dig. There go my efforts to find news sources you don't have an issue with. True/False - Michael Cohen was on national TV the DAY of the negotiations. It's very easy to postpone a hearing by one week. Just one week could have made a world of difference. After Iraq & Libya that may have been our best shot at getting the WMD armed dictator to give up his nukes. I really feel for all the people in the State Department and the administration that worked their tails off to get everything lined up in preparation. I will admit - it was a long shot - but it didn't need to be undermined.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-dines-kim-vietnam-just-cohen-goes-nuclear-capitol-hill-n976566

RobsNewsRegister

Finch - I don't know the details but have heard there is a stack of documentation, bank records, etc.. that are being ignored. Giuliani only prosecuted corruption for years in New York but he's mocked.

tagup

Bill B—I agree that nobody has changed their opinions based on this thread, but I still think engaging each other with our points of view is healthy. I understand that at times snarky remarks can get personal ( I have been guilty of this unfortunately) but we all should remember and appreciate that these types of discussions don’t happen everywhere and that all of us are enjoying the freedoms of the greatest country in the world.....

RobsNewsRegister

This is too funny. Adam Schiff, the Democratic head of the so-called impeachment inquiry committee in the House of Representatives, thought he was talking to the former speaker of the Ukrainian House during this phone call in 2018. He clearly asks for dirt on Donald Trump. It turned out to be a couple of Russian shock jocks. If it weren't for double standards I don't think these people would have standards at all.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gop-rep-digs-up-audio-of-schiff-saying-he-would-accept-dirt-on-trump-from-ukrainian-politician-in-prank-call

Finch

Rob -- yep. Been hearing that clip for over a year -- pathetic and why hasn't he been removed from that committee? You could almost hear him salivating during the call. Kind of like Rachel when she made the big announcement of having Trump's tax returns and that blew up on her.

Then Hillary saying that if Trump lost the election and didn't accept it that it would be a threat to our democracy. How many excuses is she up to now nearly three years later? Somewhere around 80 I think. This is so sad. Instead of wasting time and money on this useless battle just let the American people decide what they want in the next election and get the hell back to work!

tagup

Double standards?....the “Russians” called him .....and he’s not running for office.....your trashing of trumps adversaries doesn’t change the phone log....but carry on...

RobsNewsRegister

The congressman heading the investigation into allegations President Trump sought dirt on a political opponent from a Ukrainian official via a quid-pro-quo himself is on tape requesting dirt on a political opponent (Trump) from someone whom he thinks is a former Ukrainian official. how is that not ironic?

Finch

Exactly! And the picture of Joe and Hunter Biden golfing with those Russian guys and nothing from the media!

treefarmer


All the desperate transparent attempts to distract, all the “what about-ism,” all the false equivalencies and gas-lighting, all the ludicrous malicious conspiracy theories, all the denial in the face of fact and logic.......you do your naked emperor proud. Of course he doesn’t give half a crap about anyone but himself but that just makes your service and devotion to him even more self-righteous (and impossible to comprehend).

Finch

Only what floats inside your head seems to matter treefarmer. Stick it!

treefarmer


Uh-oh – looks like I hit a nerve. Such a creative “suggestion,” Finch. I have a suggestion for you too: you really REALLY should stop reading my posts - problem solved. Hope you are otherwise enjoying this lovely sunny day.

RobsNewsRegister

Treefarmer - please cite the criminal statute the president broke and then please explain how it as a "high crime.." worthy of impeachment. After seeing the 4th presidential conversation leaked (with Australia by NYT) I believe the Dems are getting used by the Deep State (read CIA) for cover as the origins of the counter-intelligence investigation of 2016 is now under investigation. The swamp creatures are running for cover as Barr et. al. investigate violation of law and it is they (Deep State) who are attempting a deflection. 2016 interactions with several countries, including The Ukraine, are currently under scrutiny.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/barr-confirms-doj-investigation-into-origins-of-trump-russia-probe

Finch

Yep you hit a bunch of nerves. You have been provided an abundance of facts and links but still you yourself have spewed an endless stream of snark. I just hope you get to enjoy another four years because he is most definitely being used and set up by the deep state. This is beyond anything any other president has endured and it's sickening.

treefarmer


Rob – I do read your cites (with the exception of those from the Fox official Trump propaganda machine). As you may or may not recall, a while back I posted a detailed comment about your cite from NPR. I respect their journalism and was surprised you referred me to that article because it actually supported the point I was trying to make. I have read your Washington Examiner article which contains information I was already familiar with. Barr is trying to delegitimize the Mueller Report. We will have to wait and see what results from his attempts to ferret out evidence I do not believe exists.

You questioned me about criminal statutes, here is a Business Insider article that spells it out far better than I can:
https://www.businessinsider.com/laws-trump-could-have-broken-ukraine-whistleblower-case-2019-9

Obviously the man running our Mafia Reality Show has not been convicted of anything yet – we will have to wait and see about that too. Until then I suppose you will continue to be unconcerned and defend the allusions to civil war, and the suggestion that someone who has the courage to expose wrong-doing should be drawn and quartered? Isn’t it revealing that a whistle-blower we have not heard testify yet has been demonized and threatened by the person who took an oath to uphold the law? (Intimidating a witness is against Federal law.) All this –and SO MUCH MORE – from that same person who is supposed to unite the country and be our moral leader? Are you familiar with the concept of sedition? Dear God we all deserve better than this.

Finch – Sometimes bad people do bad things and get caught, it’s called consequences. Scream conspiracy and post insults if that makes you feel more comfortable, it will not change anything. Your guy is the architect of his own demise. He has “endured” nothing he didn’t bring on all by himself. (and nothing even CLOSE to what he deserves.)

RobsNewsRegister

Treefarmer- checked out your link. "The conduct discussed in this complaint..." If the complaint or initial stories ('made a promise', quid-pro-quo, said Biden 8 times) bore true there might be an issue. The complaint was hearsay however and the transcript didn't support it.

I am with Stephen F. Cohen and am very concerned about the precedent we have set regarding leaks of presidential phone calls and even a transcript release. There are times in history (e.g. Cuban missile crisis) where frank conversations between world leaders are of upmost import. Imagine a CIA operative, like this complainant, leaking Kennedy's secret deal with Khrushchev. We've been lucky so far. https://www.thenation.com/authors/stephen-f-cohen/

RobsNewsRegister

>'Are you familiar with the concept of sedition?'

Do you realize the irony? The executive branch of our government hasn't been able to function normally for the vast bulk of President Trump's term because of the Russia Hoax and now this. That's the sedition.

treefarmer


I do not disagree that our leaders need, and ought to have, private communications. The Cuban missile crisis is an excellent example but an essential element of that critical negotiation was a leader who had the welfare of America (and welfare of the world as well) as the focus. We do not have that now. Seems to me that the flood of leaks is a direct result of unhinged and dangerous behavior that has alarmed people enough to cause such (bad precedent) actions. Desperate times/desperate actions?

“The Nation” link has several articles listed, I assumed you were referring to the one titled “What We Still Do Not Know About Russiagate?” The article did make some arguable points but Mr. Cohen also opines: “It is true, of course, that Barr and Durham, as Trump appointees, are not the ideal investigators of Intel misdeeds in the Russiagate saga.” The WHOLE truth is usually elusive but while I believe Mr. Mueller’s assessment that no collusion was PROVED, I am quite able to evaluate and judge what I saw with my own eyes. For example Don Jr. receiving an offer of “dirt” from a Russian operative and responding “I LOVE it!” before taking a meeting followed by a flood of lies about the subject matter. Or the candidate sending a public plea: “Russia, if you’re listening….” or the jubilant use of Russian hacking, or the constant lying and denial about all things related to Russian assistance. The candidate may not have phoned his pal Vlad to coordinate the nefarious foreign interference, but he definitely solicited it, welcomed it, and used it to his advantage without bothering to inform the intelligence folks that it was happening.

The Russian influence on the 2016 election is NOT A HOAX and it is no service to America, or the security of our elections, that some of you keep referring to it as such.

treefarmer


Oh, and re sedition, (American Heritage dictionary: Conduct or language inciting rebellion against the authority of a state.) the reckless public comments about how well his base is armed, and the retweet that is a couched threat of civil war if dear leader was to be held accountable – well - I could speculate about what kind of decent patriotic leader could even HINT at such a treacherous idea, but obviously we all view this through our own lens. What I see is that the emperor has no clothes, no decency, no mental stability. And the executive branch isn’t able function normally because of who is “running” it, and for no other reason.

RobsNewsRegister

>“Russia, if you’re listening….” or the jubilant use of Russian hacking, or the constant lying and denial about all things related to Russian assistance. The candidate may not have phoned his pal Vlad to coordinate the nefarious foreign interference, but he definitely solicited it, welcomed it, and used it to his advantage without bothering to inform the intelligence folks that it was happening.

Treefarmer - The full text. "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing," 7/27/16. The server had been wiped clean long before this comment was made and I for one, if the Russians do have them, believe the American people should get to see any that were purposely destroyed.

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/gowdy-clinton-wiped-her-server-clean-116472

RobsNewsRegister

Also - when it becomes apparent something is a Hoax, like the Russian Collusion allegations, I see nothing wrong with the word. It is now becoming evident that the Ukraine promise and quid-pro-quo allegations also may be that (see my 9/27/19 NR thread comments) but I'm not quite ready to use the word just yet.

treefarmer


Sorry Rob, I fail to see how the full “Russia, if you’re listening…..” quote changes anything. Russia WAS listening and that night they obliged by hacking the DNC. It was not what he asked for specifically, but he made good use of it nonetheless. There is no doubt Russia helped their chosen candidate in a myriad of other ways too. You may believe none of this is problematic because your candidate prevailed, but the attack itself was indisputably real, and the investigation was totally warranted. Mueller’s report was thorough and revealed many extremely disturbing facts. It does not qualify as a “hoax” in any sense of the word. And as to this Ukraine scandal, stay tuned. We are just beginning to learn about the depth of the abuse of power. and the scope of corruption. Did you watch the appalling on-camera unraveling earlier today from the White House? All his vulgar histrionic delusional behavior is a sign of what is in store for us as more facts surface. (I can hardly wait to see how the faithful will spin or otherwise create justification for today’s humiliating spectacle.) Our Founders were wise and built checks and balances into the Constitution. If ever we needed a check on an executive branch run amok it is NOW.)



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