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Whatchamacolumn: Ron Noble: Democracy needs 'sensible majority'

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Comments

Mudstump

You can't work with people who have been brainwashed and lied to by the president (5+ years) and right-wing media (30+ years). Their minds are closed. They have been radicalized much the way al-Qaeda has radicalized its followers. It will take a massive deprogramming effort to reach these rabid followers. They aren't patriots...just losers following a loser.

tagup

Anyone that attempts to overturn a valid and certified election or block the constitutional duties of our elected officials by force are not only losers, they’re traitors......being a patriot takes a lot more than carrying a flag.

Mudstump

After my first post I read this editorial again and I thought deeply about it. The more I thought about it the more angry I got. If you truly want to talk this out Mr. Noble how about you denounce Trump and his lies strongly? How about stating that the election was fair and after much investigation and legal challenges there is no evidence of voter fraud? You could clearly state that Joe Biden is our next president. How about you counter Trump's lies? You could also denounce the Republican Party for enabling this monster in tearing down this democracy. Given the silence of republicans and the lack of any accountability for Trump's outrageous behavior and vile attacks on members of both parties...I think this starts with YOU. What are you doing or have done to stop this insanity? Firstly, you could talk to your colleague, Mike Nearman and ask him to stop letting insurrectionists/terriorists into our state capitol. You first...that's all I have to say.

Sponge

Your focus is too narrow, Mudstump. Rep. Noble was trying to encourage a broader view that tries to set aside the pointed partisan rhetoric that seems to take up so much space and energy. There is a time and place for specific criticisms of failed leadership, but the the tenor of this piece was to step back from the kind of invective that comes so easily with ruffled feathers, and to encourage reasonable dialog among divergent perspectives. Don’t attack the messenger for trying to take a higher road in a time of historic shame.

Jean

Repudiate Trump, first....then we can talk. What say you?

Jean

Over the past five years the Republican party has been radicalized by disinformation and demonization from the president. This agenda was then propagated by right wing media because they realized that they can make money off of it. Now the chickens are coming home to roost: They have created a white nationalist mob that's ready for a revolution based on the belief of a stolen election. How do Republican leaders like you fix this? Here's how: Condemn the insurrection at the capital; fess up to the lies you've been spreading about election fraud; stop attacking our institutions and our democracy; and congratulate Joe Biden on his victory; Only then can we begin to have a discussion on how to heal and try to repair this great nation. We are at a crossroads and the choice is Democracy or Trump.

Mudstump

Sponge - I'm not attacking the messenger...I'm attacking the message. While opening dialog and listening to the other side are worthwhile goals, those days are gone, over and done with. After four years of Trump and his multitude of lies, attacks and criminality there is no dialog possible. When the republicans refuse to correct Trump and actually work to enable his lawlessness we can have no dialog.

Mr. Noble urges the "sensible majority" to not give up....I have to ask where is the accountability, remorse and atonement from the Republican Party?

What bothers me most about this opinion piece is that what Mr. Noble is asking is akin to asking a woman who has been beaten and raped to come to the table to understand her abuser. Ah, no thanks. Investigate, prosecute and send him to jail first and then we can talk.

Before any understanding can take place the abuser must first be held to account. There is no healing without justice and to ask for it absent investigations and prosecutions is dreaming. Mr. Noble will need to do more than just regurgitate platitudes.

The damage is done and it is on republicans to fix this. It was their circus and their monkey.

Sponge

Your problem, Mudstump, IS with the messenger. Precisely because of his party affiliation (and his assumed lack of denunciation of the party and its leadership), you are “attacking the message.” You conflate the message with the messenger and are unable to rise above your anger to find equity with either one. It is that kind of emotional shortsightedness that will hinder true dialog.

Mudstump

Sponge - Much of the Republican Party and Trump are literally attacking the United States government. We have congress people twitting the location of Pence, Pelosi and Clyburn to the seditionists as they entered the Capitol. You act like my anger is somehow misplaced. Every republican should be coming out strongly against this and yet we have two. Don't you see how wrong this is? Trump and his family should be investigated and prosecuted along with every single republican that enabled him to reach the point of insurrection. If Democrats did this you would be saying the same thing....and guess what..so would I.

Sponge

Mudstump, your anger is valid, and I share it for the same reasons you have articulated. My concern is that you seem unable to rise above it enough to share in the vision expressed by Rep. Noble, and primarily because of his party affiliation alone. Had the piece been written by a Democrat, I suspect your response would have been more tempered.

Mudstump

Sponge - What you don't understand is that I do share his vision. It's called finding middle ground and common ideals. I agree that if you drilled down you would find that most of us share the same desires, but we have also endured nearly five years or more of Trump who has lied to these people. They believe him and they follow social media which is designed to propagate the lies. It's a vicious circle that feeds itself. All the while, we have watched republicans support Trump and his vile attacks. Republican members have lied to their constituents. We continue to have further threats against the inauguration and this Thursday they are planning an armed protest in DC. Before we can find middle ground and come together the movement toward insurrection and a president that will stop at nothing must be addressed. Republicans need to find more than two people who will step up and tell the truth...say, "Trump is lying to you."...How about that for a start. No one wants to kiss and make up until someone is held account and tells the truth. This election was fair and wasn't stolen.

mepitts

Continue to admire Ron Noble as a voice of reason and attempted balance at a time of extremes. Thank you for your stand, sir.

Thomas

This is about far more than just the president. Just look at the budget that was proposed. Instead of giving the financial assistance to Americans in need Congress put in a bunch of other things that really from the outside look more like serving the interests of some corporations rather than the people.

I see the democrat and republican parties as two heads of the same system, and I am going to have a really hard time having faith in a first past the post voting system, which seems to statistically always converge into a 2 party system because the people are too afraid to vote for who they truly believe for fear they are "throwing away their vote".

Each party not taking each other's concerns seriously and demonizing each other instead of having actual debates. Congressmen changing their stance to object when they said they were going to, and have things investigated just because the capital got raided like they need to nanny us.

In addition to this treating Silicon Valley big tech corporations as a 4th branch of government letting them decide what can and can't be said to our peers online as we've outsourced our communication and community discussion needs to them. Letting them do mass surveillance on us and perform "analytics", manipulate our moods with hyper-targeted personalized propaganda. Driving our ability for meaningful discussion and tolerance of other views into the ground all in the name of optimizing for engagement.

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