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Letters to the Editor: Aug. 28, 2015

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Comments

Mudstump

Gayle Alexander - "They make all kinds of pretty promises they never intend to keep. But we must not give up on trying to pick the right people. We also need to see they do what they are elected to do and not re-elect them if they fail."

We no longer live in a democracy so your idea that oversight by the American people and our vote will make a difference is sad indeed. We have an oligarchy and our vote means little when billionaires can buy politicians to do their bidding and screw the working people of this country. The SCOTUS gave our government to the plutocrats whose greed has no bounds. They have no allegiance to America only corporate profits. I agree with you that we should be done with the Clinton and Bush dynasties. I can't believe that anyone would consider a third Bush in the White House, after all, hasn't this country suffered enough? The only candidate that can't be bought and is a true representative of the people is Bernie Sanders.

Finch

Not all of us are socialists - Bernie Sanders? What a joke!

Mudstump

Finch - Your comment shows that you know very little about Bernie Sanders and what a Democratic Socialist is. Maybe if you read up on the terms and take a look at Senator Sanders record you might find the information that you need.

Finch

Mudstump - While I agree that we don't need another Bush or Clinton - I don't agree that the only candidate that can't be bought is Sanders.

Mudstump

Finch - If there is another candidate that isn't taking money from billionaires or a Super PAC and is instead financing their campaign exclusively from small donations from average people and small businesses...I'm all ears. If you know of one please let me know because I for one am sick and tired of establishment politics. I am looking for a rep that represents me and the best interests of my family and the country.

Don Dix

Outsider is defined as -- a competitor, applicant, etc., thought to have little chance of success.

If one is not a member of the 'establishment class' ( 1%ers), or politically connected, there is no chance! The 'old money' (and some new) has been controlling the elections and legislation for decades upon decades. The Roosevelts were related, of course, but they were also related to Martin Van Buren and Zachary Taylor. The Bushs, Adams, Harrisons, Madison - Taylor, the Kennedys. Big list!

The point being, those who are influencing elections with their cash today, have been doing so for a long time. That influence spits up the 'next great candidate' that is 'somebody's somebody' every so often, and sooner than later, that 'somebody' will win. And the establishment elite stays just that .... established!

It's pretty obvious what's going down, and it should have been stopped long ago. Until the citizens en-mass ignore the consonant behind the name and study who isn't just blowing smoke up their 'asterisk' and, more importantly, who is, we're screwed!

Mudstump

Don Dix - I agree with you. The disastrous Citizens United decision that opened the flood gates to unlimited money into campaigns must be overturned. I believe that two democrats, Edwards and Conyers proposed a Constitutional amendment to overturn CU, but little progress has been made. I would say that both parties are owned by the corporate elites and do their bidding. You can count on one-hand the number of politicians that aren't owned and that is truly shameful. Big corporate interests and billionaires now have the ability to buy our government. I would say that it is important to vote, but that doesn't seem to really matter anymore.

Finch

Mudstump - And where do you stand on union influence? Their hands are pretty deep into member pockets and they pretty much exclusively support the Democrats.

Mudstump

Finch - I support public funding of elections. Outside money and lobbying only serves to corrupt the democratic system. IMO, we need a system that is representative of all the people not just those with the most money.

gogetajob

Tony Hartford: You should be a D.J. at the local radio station, you spin it like a pro. Truth seems to elude you however.

gogetajob

Finch: you are 100% correct. UNIONS are huge issue, and anyone who thinks Sanders is anything but a socialist, needs to research more. The problem with socialism is that you run out of OTHER peoples money, he wants free college for all, where does he think this money is going to come from? He is truly insane.

Finch

gogetajob - Thank you. It's sad that those who start from the bottom and work their way up and/or those that start companies and take the risks and are regulated to death are demonized. And then we have those that think they have the right to tell others how much of their own money they can keep or who they need to give it to and think there's nothing wrong that. Yes, Sanders is a socialist and proud of it. Something has got to change.

Horse with no name

Easy, easy, ya'll been drinking that Republican cool-aid way too long. All these companies that take more of your tax dollars in a million subsidies and special deals where they end up paying a lower tax rate than your average working stiff. You need to pull your head out of the cool-aid and look over your shoulder and see who's giving it to you and taking it from you. Bernie Sanders has said the same thing all his life and it's always been for the good of working people in this country. Unions balance the power of the wealthy and labor. When you don't have balance you get abuse. Look over your shoulder, it ain't a Union member back there, it's probably somebody like Donald Trump.

kona

Horse with no name, you said, " Unions balance the power of the wealthy and labor."

No they don't, nor should they. Labor does not have investment capital at risk. "Wealthy do not make their wealth from non-union labor. Their wealth is generally derived from the value of their particular product(s).

Finch

'When you don't have balance you get abuse' - untrue. What about people who are members of unions that don't share the same political beliefs and have their money taken and spent on what does not represent their beliefs? I know such people. I personally would never be a member of a union. I have worked private sector my entire life and have never felt abuse. There will always no matter what be examples of people who have experienced both sides. I have worked my entire life and paid my own way and don't appreciate talking heads dictating how they're going to take the peoples money and throw it at different causes or spend it wastefully and we're just supposed to shut up and sit down. At this point we are still a free nation and are entitled to our opinions and can vote for whomever we choose.
Also,just because a person may be a republican does not mean they are drinking the 'kool aid' and agreeing with the decisions being made - many hold conservative beliefs and want better for our country. And, not all democrats are liberals. There are gray areas on both sides. I think this country is so sick of both sides that we'll have a very interesting political season.

gogetajob

Horse with no name: Really? Where did you get your computer? Your Car? YOur shoes? Where do you buy your moring cup of joe? Where do you buy your grocries? Oh wait, you walk to work, in shoes made by hand by your wife from grass that you grow in your own yard? And you then go to work and get paid a paycheck by a poor person...you then go home, to your tree house, because gosh only knows that you would not want a home made out of wood that comes from a big business, you then rummage for food in the forest and cook it over an open flame? WOW

Horse with no name

Keep on sippin' ya'll. When you're getting a dollar an hour cause you have to compete with the poor Chinese guy in the race to the bottom for wages and safety, you'll be real free then, yeah buddy. Any when all the business guys that take all the risk with their money, oh yeah like Evergreen still trying to get out of taxes. You should read this very paper a little closer. Some capitalist, they always want the taxpayer to cover their behind so they don't have any risk... yeah some line of bull. Ask the people in Prineville with the data centers moving in only because of the huge tax breaks and when the tax breaks run out, they are gone. If you haven't figured out the way business is done these days by now, you never will. They know how it's done in the local college MBA courses. chug-a-lug.

kona

Horse with no name, you make zero sense with your "straw man" scenarios. You just come across as having a giant chip on your shoulder. So are you suggesting capitalism is bad? Are you suggesting that business is bad? Are you suggesting that government is bad? What are you suggesting? Would you like it if everyone was poor, or what? You don't sound very convincing.

Horse with no name

Kona - No straw men erected here, just a little reality for you: http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/apple_buys_land_from_crook_cou.html. All of these "enterprise zone" deals, get a little work for construction and a few jobs. They just walk away when they can't keep the sweet no tax incentives. That's not paying their fair share. I never said capitalism is bad, in fact sustainable capitalism is very good. If you are good at your business and furnish a product/service that people want, you will succeed. Why should I be subsidizing any company that doesn't send me a return on investment at the end of each quarter? There are good businesses and they are the ones that carry their own weight and pay their fair share of taxes. Those are taxes that create and maintain the infrastructure that allows the business to function in the first place, which all the working people are paying for everyday. Loopholes and special deals for fat cats are not fair, they are obtained by their lobbyist and the politicians that are at their teat. One of the functions of government is to maintain fairness (see courts, regulations, etc.). Big business hates those regulations, just doesn't let them run over everyone in the pursuit of maximum profit and exploitation of people and resources. Yeah, I want everyone to be poor, talk about a straw man argument. Working people's wages have been flat since the 1970's while corporate and CEO gains are astronomical, mostly because of the increased productivity of working stiffs and the special political consideration they have received through their "investment" in lobbying for laws that grease the tracks for them. Yeah I got a chip on my shoulder for thieves screwing hard working people, that actually make, fix and buy all those products.

kona

I agree. Very few people condone crooked politics, businesses or people. Thankfully that is not the normal situation that you present. Unions have been among the most unscrupulous of all businesses and have the most powerful lobbyists in Oregon. Does that bother you?

Horse with no name

Kona - Unscrupulousness in all forms bothers anyone that strives to be scrupulous. You painting all union members (teachers, firefighters, police, countless others that perform vital functions to stringent standards) with the same broad brush of unscrupulousness is a real stretch that is not correct. You know who builds all those Intel Fabs, Union professionals. If they let any ol' scab do it on the cheap, there would be no Intel, no matter how smart the guy on top is. Since I don't agree that Unions are the big evil in Oregon, there's plenty to go around with all of the lobbyist cruising the halls of government, some you don't like, some I don't like. Currently it appears those with the gold make the rules and that's not "We The People" as this Country should be functioning. Thank the Supreme Court decision Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission for that. The McCarthyism of branding union members as commies and worse doesn't get it in an educated society. Next time a firefighter or police office show up to save your behind, be sure and remember to tell them how unscrupulous they are to be in a union.

kona

You said, "You painting all union members (teachers, firefighters, police, countless others that perform vital functions to stringent standards) with the same broad brush of unscrupulousness is a real stretch that is not correct."

You are right because that is not what I said. Never did I mention "union members". I have owned both union and non-union corporations. Both were relatively equal in productivity. In many situations the union requirements were very stifling to productivity and that is not abnormal. Incidently, our union membership voted to decertify affiliation with the three unions involved.

There is a good reason why union membership is at historic lows. The primary reason is that unions are still trying to operate at a 1950s mentality of intimidation and productivity slowdowns.

Horse with no name

Kona, Kona. You don't like unions but union members are OK. You do understand that a union is made up of it's members, human beings that agree to stand together to negotiate for wages and working conditions. "Labor does not have investment capital at risk. "Wealthy do not make their wealth from non-union labor. Their wealth is generally derived from the value of their particular product(s)." Really, if non-union labor doesn't make the widget and you don't want union labor to make the widget, how does that particular product come into existence? The corporate owner just touches things and they turn to gold, you think things into existence. I don't think so. Sounds like you'd love some of that cheap Chinese labor, no regulations, somebody mentions union and it's off to prison, heck of a deal, that's why all the fat cats do it. Big profit and labor races to the bottom feeling so lucky to have any job at all. It's only by the grace of the benevolent business owner that they are able to feed and clothe their young, praise the lord of the manor.

BlueWolf57

I want to say a few words about chickens and war. Both have severed man, since man wanted to have more than what he needed. Chickens were currency in the times when country doctors made house calls and wars ... The one war we fail to win is on self restraint as a nation and our own selves therefore commercials for anything and everything. Who makes best and most weapons and makes the most profit? They may also have the best chickens in the world!

kona

You said, " Sounds like you'd love some of that cheap Chinese labor, no regulations, somebody mentions union and it's off to prison, heck of a deal, that's why all the fat cats do it."

Again, your "straw man" scenario is totally off the mark. Cheap labor only matches cheap productivity. Regulations are very important. Unions are self destructing because of the way they operate.

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