By Tom Henderson • Staff Writer • 

Clinic declares itself 'haven' for immigrants

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Comments

Joel2828

Obeying the law brings a feeling of peace and safety. Breaking the law and trying to hide brings fear and anxiety.

Joel2828

When people are doing something illegal, hiding them from the law may seem on the surface to be compassionate...and I suppose it is, at least in the short run. But a truly compassionate person who has another persons long term best interests in mind would lovingly and compassionately insist that an "undocumented" immigrant go home, get in line and come here the legal and honest way...just like other legal immigrants have been doing for centuries.

Reichologist

Obviously (unless your an Alt-Science supporter), if we scare away PEOPLE from health services, we decrease herd immunity and it becomes a health issue for everyone. No brainer.

Lulu

Ah, yes, Joel 2828, who never met a petty pedantic regulation he wouldn't follow blindly to the ends of the earth, and make sure people knew it. Were you the student who joyfully tattled on fellow classmates following recess? "Mr. Chips, I think you should know that Kevin stepped over the boundary of our play area." Why not revive the Army-McCarthy Hearings? The House Un-American Activities Committee? The Salem Witch Trials? The Inquisition? The Crusades? The martyrs tortured to death in the Coliseum? Joel, are you now, or have you ever been, compassionate?

Reichologist

Erring on the side of compassion is good policy for everyone. Joel2828 I'll bet you always drive the speed limit, you must feel very safe and peaceful. My family were refugees from El Salvador during the 80s, the US denied refugee status, Canada didn't. They didn't leave El Salvador to go on welfare in America, they left because their friends were getting hacked up with machetes and their turn was next, is that a good enough reason to break the law? And such a deal it was, now the entire family is spread out across North America, 4 countries, 2 Provinces and 6 states. They didn't want that but they had two choices, immigrate or die. I'll tell you what, I wouldn't hesitate to protect my family in the same way. Immigration, by and large, is about family.

kona

Reichologist, are you suggesting that everyone in the world who is in some kind of physical danger should be permitted into the United States? That is what your comment sounds like. Maybe 10 Million from China, 15 million from India etc.

country97

In defense of illegal immigrants they have not had the benefit of an American kindergarten education. I.e. get in line and wait your turn to apply.

Reichologist

Ah Kona! I knew you would respond! I see your comments on many, many articles of many topics. My opinion is that you want attention, not a rational debate. Your question/comment/bait is neither reflective of what I said nor rational. Sorry not interested.

kona

Reichologist, I am disappointed that you were unwilling to answer the simple question before taking flight. Not wanting attention at all. Yes, I would like a "rational debate" rather than your unsupported opinion.The answer to the question is a "yes" or "no".

Your statement, "They didn't leave El Salvador to go on welfare in America, they left because their friends were getting hacked up with machetes and their turn was next, is that a good enough reason to break the law?"

kona

Reichologist, there shouldn't be any problem for refugees coming into the United States legally, wouldn't you agree?

Reichologist

Kona, opinions by definition are unsupported. Nevertheless, what I stated regarding my family is fact. My OPINION is that current immigration/refugee law is motivated by fear, falsehoods and financial reasons and is immoral when it asks conscientious and honorable people to piss Jesus off.

I still believe in Lady Liberty's promise, the "Mother of Exiles", every word:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

kona

Reichologist, No where does "Lady Liberty's promise" say that every person in the world who is struggling is welcome in the United States illegally by not going through the immigration process. Any reasonable person should understand the difference between entering the United States legally and illegally. The United States would quickly become a third world country if all oppressed in the world would feel justified in entering the United States illegally.

This is not to be confused with open arms those who go through the process of legally entering the United States.

Opinions that can't be supported are a collection of meaningless words.

So, I ask again, "are you suggesting that everyone in the world who is in some kind of physical danger should be permitted into the United States? That is what your comment sounds like."

kona

Reichologist, the basic question that everyone likes to dance around is, "do you feel there is any difference between legal and illegal immigration?" Should we as a country support or reject the practice of illegal immigration?

Reichologist

Kona, "Opinions that can't be supported are a collection of meaningless words." Then the whole country is wasting its breath.

kona

Reichologist,I'm not sure why you think "the whole country is wasting its breath". Most people can decipher whether an opinion is worthy of discussion even if they disagree.

Reichologist

One thing is for sure, I'm wasting my breath.

kona

Reichologist, it would be great if you could answer questions supporting your opinion.

Sal Peralta

I think most people who are worked up about undocumented workers personally know very few of the people or their families. Most people who are here illegally are part of families with mixed immigration status. I have met families with parents who are here legally who have kids who do not have legal status. I have met families with kids who are US citizens and 1 parent with legal status and 1 without. I think there are genuinely good people who favor incredibly inhumane policies based on "legitimate concerns" who have never thought about the impact of those policies in the real world on real people. And I think there are people, a fairly big number of people, whose primary motivation is racial animus. At the end of the day, under this administration, we are going to have a federal policy that does a lot of damage to a lot of families by punishing a group of people with basically minimal legal rights that we have benefited from for decades as a country. The arguments about immigrants -- legal or illegal -- being a net negative for our country are generally baseless. Immigrants contribute far more to our economy than they take in social services, and immigration is one of the main drivers of economic growth in this country. Low cost labor drives the agricultural sector of our economy. Immigrants account for 1/4th of all business startups in this country and half of PhD's that are awarded. It is absolutely inhumane as well as un-Christian and un-American, to turn a blind eye to the issue for 30 years, let people build lives here, and then come in and break up families indiscriminately, as we have seen happen right here in Oregon in the last week.

Sal Peralta

Regarding Nearman and OFIR's petitions... their motivation is racial animus. OFIR is classified by Southern Poverty Law Center as a Nativist Extremist group. Their most recent scheme would force every Oregonian to re-register to vote, despite the fact that proof of citizenship is required to register in Oregon and the current DMV system requires proof of citizenship and automatically registers people to vote who provide it. They are either aware of the policy and are therefore using their initiatives to stir up nativist racist sentiment, or they are unaware of the policy and therefore have no business legislating based on their own ignorance. I see their actions as substantially similar to President Trump lying to voters during the campaign about the process required to immigrate legally to this country in order to stoke nativist fears about the actual risks posed by legal immigration.

kona

Sal, I can ask you the same question, " the basic question that everyone likes to dance around is, "do you feel there is any difference between legal and illegal immigration?" Should we as a country support or reject the practice of illegal immigration?

Isn't there a right way and a wrong way to enter a country to live? Would you find it troubling if 10 million Chinese (Africans, Indians, any other location or all) would decide to emigrate to the U.S.? Shouldn't it be an orderly legal process?

Sal Peralta

Obviously there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration. Legal immigrants have rights. Let me ask you a couple of questions: Why do you think we have an immigration system that has favored bringing in an underclass of workers with no legal rights? Given that we have benefited from this system (in the form of cheap agricultural production and other ways), is it fair to bring people in through that system, do you favor breaking up families with mixed immigration status when there is no history of criminality?

Sal Peralta

Hit send on that last comment before correcting it.

Given that we have built our agricultural industry on migrant laborers who are primarily undocumented, allowed that system to exist for 70-80 years, do you believe it's fair to come in after the fact and bring the hammer down on families, most of which have a mix of undocumented, legal, and citizens? Regarding refugees... I think our bias should be towards people fleeing. If they get here they should have a safe harbor. I definitely favor doing more to help Syrian refugees fleeing Iranian and Russian bombs.

kona

You asked, "Why do you think we have an immigration system that has favored bringing in an underclass of workers with no legal rights?"

I think that is a terrible by-product of a failed immigration system. An orderly legal system where everyone is accounted for makes so much more sense for everyone involved.

You asked, "Given that we have built our agricultural industry on migrant laborers who are primarily undocumented, allowed that system to exist for 70-80 years, do you believe it's fair to come in after the fact and bring the hammer down on families, most of which have a mix of undocumented, legal, and citizens?"

No, but that can't be a continuous situation for future generations. I am curious why these people never bothered attempting to obtain citizenship status? There has to be a better/enforced system for immigration or these problems will continue for generations. The cycle of illegal entry has to be stopped. It is not as though our government policy promoted illegal immigration. Legal immigration has always been the preferred method for an immigration policy.

You said, " I think our bias should be towards people fleeing. If they get here they should have a safe harbor. I definitely favor doing more to help Syrian refugees fleeing Iranian and Russian bombs."

I don't think the United States has the capacity to accept all fleeing people. There are millions in Africa alone who would fit your category. I support all legally/orderly immigration/refugee programs. There has to be accountability to prevent the situations you present.

I do fully support the deportation (and prevention of return) of illegal immigrants who commit crimes within the United States.

Reichologist

Sal Peralta, Beautiful analysis! Right on target!!

kona

So do either one of you have objections to "building the wall" to help prevent illegal immigration? The wall was given approval by Sen. Schumer and Sen. Hillary Clinton. There are already 590 miles of wall, much that was built during the Obama Administration.

I'm am wondering why I keep seeing the signs that say "no wall". Does that mean that these people support illegal immigration?

Sal Peralta

Kona - I do not object to securing the border. I do object to "Build the Wall" as a metaphoric "F-You" to people with brown skin and to the demagoguery that Trump engaged in during the campaign. Whatever we do with respect to immigration has got to take into account basic human rights, the economic needs of our agricultural industry, and the realities of many people who have built lives here. The current "pre-Trump" policy fails in that regard, and it has gotten substantially worse under the Trump administration's policies. Destabilizing the Mexican economy is not going to help our immigration problem. Breaking up otherwise functioning mixed-status families is not going to reduce the impact that immigration has on social services. And creating further racial animosity does nothing to increase our security or "make america great".

Sal Peralta

Also, what makes you think most people with mixed immigration status have not spent years trying to get things straightened out? A lot of the people who are being sent home how have been dutifully presenting themselves to ICE for years while they are trying to get their papers.

kona

Your perception of "build the wall" is different than mine. And, my perception is probably different from President Trump. My perception of "build the wall" is to enforce immigration policy so everyone entering the United States is legal and the numbers are adjusted as determined annually by our government. The situation we have now is terrible without enforcement. We have had a flood (who knows how many) of uncounted/undocumented immigrants who have caused chaos with many segments of society. We wouldn't be having this discussion if these people would have come legally. I don't feel it is ethically nor morally acceptable for people to move into a country without being firstly accepted by that country. Not any differently than someone opening your front door and moving into your home without being invited.

You asked, "what makes you think most people with mixed immigration status have not spent years trying to get things straightened out?"

I'm sure that many have. I'm also sure that many have not. It is why their entry into the U.S. should have been legal in the first place.

Sal Peralta

Bottom line for me is that the current administration's policy is more immoral and less practical than previous policies and POTUS used Build the Wall, birtherism, Muslim ban and many other policies to build and capitalize on racial animus for political purposes. Millions of people went along with it and much of what he said were flat out lies. You are educated enough to know that and to largely excuse it. Which is sad.

kona

Sal, you are over estimating my feelings for President Trump. The personal jab toward me is not acceptable. I have followed his career for the last 20 years and have never liked his personality, his actions nor the way he speaks. Of course, the same could be said for Hillary Clinton. As bad as Donald Trump is, he was the second worst candidate on the ballot.

I do appreciate the hard line on illegal immigration because it is needed and overdue. I do appreciate the stance toward Russia and Israel which was poisoned during the Obama Administration.

listen*up

build the damn wall,make it 50 feet and electrify it,send every illegal and their families back across the border,you broke the law on purpose,you get to suffer from your actions,you are stealing from legal immigrants and citizens,you get welfare,foodstamps,healthcare,you steal education benefits,college benefits,most do not assimilate,refuse to learn english,get discounted cable,internet,and cell service,a lot drive without a license and a lot don't get auto insurance!they are criminals by being here and teach their children that breaking the law is acceptable! they do come for the free handouts,stop making it a race bias no one cares about skin color but you!we have white,brown,yellow,red,black illegals coming into this country and it has to stop,american taxpayers can not and will not continue to support these societal criminal leaches!

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