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Trump win resets culture war debate on abortion, LGBT rights

 

NEW YORK  — For the combatants in America's long-running culture wars, the triumph of Donald Trump and congressional Republicans was stunning — sparking elation on one side, deep dismay on the other.

Advocates of LGBT rights and abortion rights now fear setbacks instead of further gains. But the outcome emboldened the anti-abortion movement and breathed new life into the religious right's campaign for broad exemptions from same-sex marriage and other laws.

Kelly Shackelford, head of First Liberty Institute, a legal group that specializes in religious freedom cases, said that, for his cause, the environment will transform from “brutal” under the Obama administration to friendly given GOP control of both Congress and the White House. His clients include two Christian bakers in Oregon who were fined for refusing to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding.

“Many of us who fight for religious freedom have felt in the last four or even eight years there was a lot of overreaching that was wrong,” said Shackelford, who was among hundreds of religious conservatives who met with Trump last June. “To have someone who is president-elect, who says I'm going to put an end to this ... we're going to go back to a country built on religious freedom. That makes us very hopeful.”

Among the election's repercussions will be a renewed campaign, in state legislatures and in Congress, to pass tough anti-abortion legislation. Religious conservatives will press for far-reaching conscience protections and a repeal of regulations they said violated their religious liberty. And the push to let transgender students use the bathroom of their choice at school, strongly backed by President Barack Obama, may wither in the face of GOP resistance.

“There's no question a lot of transgender students and their parents woke up Wednesday morning really scared,” said Sarah McBride, a 26-year-old transgender activist who is national press secretary for the LGBT-rights group the Human Rights Campaign. “I'm feeling the way a lot of folks are feeling — worried that the heart of this country isn't big enough to love us, too.”

McBride in July became the first openly transgender person to address a national political convention when she spoke to the Democrats’ gathering in Philadelphia.

Comparable worries surfaced among abortion-rights supporters.

“My colleagues across the country are deeply disheartened,” said Dr. Willie Parker, an Alabama-based physician who provides abortions in three Southern states. He predicts intensified efforts to lay the groundwork for a challenge of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision establishing a nationwide right to abortion.

“We're disappointed, but not defeated,” said Parker. “Like the civil rights movement, we're in it for the long haul.”

Anti-abortion leaders initially were wary of Trump, who in the past had supported abortion rights. They rallied behind him — and launched a massive door-knocking campaign in several battleground states — after he pledged to support several of their key goals. These include defunding of Planned Parenthood, a ban on most late-term abortions, and the appointment of Supreme Court justices who might weaken or reverse Roe v. Wade.

Marjorie Dannensfelser, leader of the anti-abortion Susan B. Anthony List, hailed the GOP sweep as “an historic moment for the pro-life movement,” putting its goals within reach.

Yet some wariness remained.

“We are well aware that promises are not deeds,” said Troy Newman, the president of Operation Rescue. “We will work to hold the new administration's feet to the fire throughout Trump's presidency, to ensure that promises are kept.”

Planned Parenthood, whose services include birth control, sex education and abortions, has been a longtime target of Republican politicians, and is now bracing for intensified challenges.

“There are almost no words to capture the threat that this election result poses,” said the organization's president, Cecile Richards. “We will not give up, we will not back down.”

On social media, many women were broaching the option of acquiring long-lasting intrauterine devices as their form of birth control, on the possibility that birth-control pills would no longer be available free if Obama's health care act is repealed.  

The GOP triumph was a heavy blow to the Human Rights Campaign and other gay-rights organizations which had worked vigorously on behalf of Hillary Clinton. They embraced her campaign as unprecedented in the breadth of its outreach to gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people.

“It hurts,” said Rachel Tiven, CEO of the LGBT-rights group Lambda Legal. “Our beautiful, slowly improving, two-steps-forward-one-step-back country took a giant step backward.”

LGBT activists are now wondering if same-sex marriage — legalized nationwide by a 2015 Supreme Court ruling — is in jeopardy given the prospect of Trump appointing conservative justices who might reconsider that decision.

Activists also are worried by news that Ken Blackwell, a former Cincinnati mayor, was being tapped to handle domestic issues for Trump's transition team. Blackwell is a senior fellow with the Family Research Council, a staunch foe of same-sex marriage and other LGBT-rights causes.

On same-sex marriage and other issues, the Obama years brought one defeat after another for religious conservatives, who saw the president and his supporters on an inexorable march to curtail the rights of people of faith.

Liberals considered these fears overblown and said the First Amendment already offered significant protection for religious groups. But conservative Christians were deeply anxious about their future. Their only major victory came when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled two years ago in favor of Hobby Lobby, the Christian-owned arts and crafts chains with faith objections to the birth control coverage requirement in the Affordable Care Act.

Now, advocates see a transformed landscape.

“We now have more equilibrium between the so-called competing sides — between the LGBT rights movement and the religious freedom proponents,” said Tim Schultz of the 1st Amendment Partnership, a Washington-based group which advocates for religious exemptions.

In a letter last month to Catholics, Trump decried what he called hostility to religious freedom and pledged, “I will defend your religious liberties and the right to fully and freely practice your religion, as individuals, business owners and academic institutions.”

During the campaign, he promised to repeal the Johnson Amendment, an IRS rule barring pastors from endorsing candidates from the pulpit.

Due to the election results, Schultz expects the Justice Department will be friendlier to religious conservatives, and Congress more willing to enact legislation that advances conscience protections.

Retired Navy Chaplain Wes Modder, a Pentecostal minister, was the target of a complaint that he was disrespectful in counseling gay sailors when discussing his religious opposition to same-sex relationships. The First Liberty Institute took him on as a client and successfully challenged the complaint as a violation of Modder's religious freedom. The case became a rallying cry for Christian conservatives upset about the Obama administration's support for LGBT rights.

“No military chaplain should have to go through what I went through,” Modder said of his fight to avoid being ousted from the Navy.

Modder, among military veterans who met with Trump in September, said he was very hopeful that Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence, a religious conservative, will advance policies that would prevent recurrences of what happened to him.

Trump “understands the importance of religious liberty,” said Modder, who recently retired from the military to become a pastor in Chicago. “The team that he is assembling, the people he is surrounding himself with, I think are going to give him the right messaging.”

Comments

Mudstump

Freedom of or freedom from religion? Looks like we going to lose our freedom from the religion of the elected.

Horse with no name

theocracy:
a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities.

Really great when it's your religion, what happens when it flips to the other's religion?

I don't have to tell you, look at world history from as far back as you can go to the present. Really bad, stupid idea, not to mention no religion can prove any of their fantastic claims. Idiocracy (the movie) coming true. I prefer the Constitution of the United States of America with all of it's amendments and those to come. That's how you get better, not re-fighting the civil war or Jim Crow or the crusades or whatever other little demons might be flying around in the imagination of the believer of all things fantastic, that's stupid.

Mudstump

It looks like they are going to fill the administration with insiders and special interests. I read that Myron Ebell is up to head the EPA, Michael McKenna to head the Dept. of Energy and Michael Catanzaro as energy advisor....all are deeply connected to special interests. So much for "draining the swamp".

kona

So who would you (either one of you) suggest for Trumps appointments? Do you hope that the Trump presidency is successful as President Obama has suggested?

Shasta

Kona, are you defending his picks?
Myron Ebell is a climate change denier. He denies scientific data, which is a problem if you are the head of "Environmental Protection" one of his quotes on climate change "it isn’t much to worry about", Ebell has stated his belief that global warming is a hoax. That's quite a statement something that's been termed "the greatest threat to mankind"
Michael McKenna...energy lobbyist(Dow to name one). Drain the swamp huh?
Michael Catanzaro....lobbyist for Koch industries. More swamp
draining?
Steve Bannon.....There isn't enough room on this forum to quote all of this monsters, racist, sexist, gay bashing, white supremisist statements. I'll let you do that digging...it won't take long to find.
If you're questioning who would be better picks, just about anyone. Most junior high students know that climate change is real.
99% of climate scientists agree
I do hope the presidency is successful. However, this is no longer just campaign rhetoric is it? Think about everything else he's said on the campaign trail.

tagup

I'm still interested is how Mr. Trump will divest himself from Trump Inc.......His domestic and international conflicts of interest are endless....Drain the swamp indeed....

kona

Shasta, you asked, "Kona, are you defending his picks?"

No I don't like Donald Trump. I don't like Hillary Clinton. They were the two worst nominations for President in my lifetime. I am not defending his picks. I do hope he ends up being a successful President of the United States. I will not spend my future trying to throw roadblocks in front of him because nothing I can do will change his actions.

Mudstump

"I will not spend my future trying to throw roadblocks in front of him because nothing I can do will change his actions."

No..but, we can hold him to his word and call him out when he says one thing and does another. He promised to not touch Medicare and Social Security. He promised to do something about our disastrous trade agreements. He promised a $10 minimum wage...not enough, but its a start. He won and now we will see if his promises were just a scam or if he was sincere. So far, his choices for appointments looks like he was just selling us all a pack of lies. I hope not, but its our job to call him out and put pressure on him to do what he promised.

Horse with no name

Shinning a light on him and his activities, and holding him to his grand promises is our responsibility, no matter who got elected. That is always our responsibility; we don't elect Kings and Queens that can do whatever they want. Trump's method of operation will surely offer opportunities for impeachment, and it will probably come from the Republicans. When we think and act as "we", we can have an effect. When we think as "I", it's always easy to say I can't have any effect and it's probably true.

kona

Mudstump, you and many will be doing an exercise in futility.

You said, "No..but, we can hold him to his word and call him out when he says one thing and does another". Are you new to politics in the United States? Politicians have been making promises that haven't been kept for hundreds of years and continued right through the Obama Presidency. Promises by politicians running for office are as hollow as a rotten tree.

Mudstump

Republicans have plans to eliminate the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Sen. Shelby stated that he wants to see the agency gone. I wonder if Trump who ran on cleaning up Wall Street will allow the republicans to kill the one agency that helps consumers? Since 2010 the bureau has returned 12 billion dollars to 27 million Americans who were wronged by scams. It will be interesting to see just how sincere Trump was and if his promises were worth keeping.

kona

Mudstump and Horse with no name. Both of you seem to suggest that it is extremely important for you that a President Trump make good on all of his promises. You can't be serious, or are you? You both are hoping for a failure of the Presidency similarly to Bill Clinton? Is that a positive for our country? I do recognize that many people on the losing side of this landslide election (federal, states and counties) have similar feelings as the both of you.

kona

During campaigning Obama promised if he was elected that Guantanamo Bay prison would be closed in 2009. Didn't happen. It is what politicians do and that is why so many hold politicians in such a lowly status.

Remember when Obama said he would introduce comprehensive immigration reform during his first year in office? Remember when he didn't do that?

There are many more.

Don Dix

Shasta,

The climate change 'fear' is just one in a long list of 'imposing threats' that allow the governments to control the population. You do remember it was 'global warming' until the Earth failed to cooperate, right?

So moving the goalposts to a claim (climate change) that has been the nature of Earth since the beginning is the avenue.

Climate change is not a new scientific discovery -- it changes four times every year, over the entire Earth!

kona

More Obama promises that weren't fulfilled:
1) "Eliminating special tax breaks for oil and gas companies: including repealing special expensing rules, foreign tax credit benefits, and manufacturing deductions for oil and gas firms."
2) Expand and make refundable the child and dependent care credit.
3) Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax.
4) Congress has set rules regarding the tax deductibility of the salaries of CEOs, but forms of non-salary compensation have become popular. Obama would look at revamping definitions of compensation.
5) Create a $10 billion fund to help homeowners refinance or sell their homes.
6) Will direct the Internal Revenue Service to "give taxpayers the option of a pre-filled tax form to verify, sign and return to the IRS or online. This will eliminate the need for Americans to hire expensive tax preparers and to gather information that the federal government already has on file."
7) "Will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This will eliminate taxes for 7 million seniors -- saving them an average of $1,400 a year-- and will also mean that 27 million seniors will not need to file an income tax return at all."

There are many more.

Mudstump

Kona - So your argument is that since all politicians fail to keep all of their promises we should just throw up our hands and say oh well? Yes, I know that all promises are kept, but I hold Pres. Obama accountable for his failures just as much as I will hold Trump accountable for his. I'm not naive....but, we just elected a new president and he made some promises that appealed to voters across the spectrum. With his presidency we stand to lose some very important and hard fought programs that actually help the "working people" he said he was going to champion. Politicians love people like you who think what's the use...they are all corrupt and lie. Its your job to stay informed and speak out when they break those promises.

Mudstump

kona - I meant to say that I know that all promises are not kept. Sorry for the mistake....there is no way to edit.

kona

Mudstump, I agree with much that you have stated. You said, "Kona - So your argument is that since all politicians fail to keep all of their promises we should just throw up our hands and say oh well?" No, not quite. People need to keep the promises in perspective and do their best to influence these promises in a positive way. I think it is fine to protest legally but there should be a very hard line when it comes to illegal/destructive protests. I wish the Clinton supporters who are protesting would at least vote in the elections and secondly work to develop ideas programs that would promote a better United States. Too many think it is fine to protest and then do zero to make an improvement.

Are people going to protest the "building of a wall"? Keep in mind that President Obama had miles of border walls built. We now have 570 miles of border walls.

Are people going to protest deporting ILLEGAL immigrants who commit crimes in the U.S.? Keep in mind that President Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other President. Where were the protests against President Obama?

Shasta

So Mr Dix...you're suggesting that all the data collected from climate scientists around the world, and the results that have been compiled, are an international/collective governmental conspiracy to control the worlds population?
Got it.
What exactly are "they"(world wide governments) controlling us from/for? Taking care of the environment? Providing clean air to breathe? Clean water to drink? How can someone argue that its not ethically or morally right to take care of the planet regardless of your conspiracy theories.? How can someone say that humans don't have an impact on the earths well being/environment/climate?
I wont argue that the earths climate is constantly changing and always has. But the fact that the current levels of change are directly connected with the amount of human caused pollution has been proven. For you to deny scientific evidence makes this debate impossible and un-winnable.

Shasta

Stating climate change isn't real because of the four seasons also is a particularly weak argument. Similarly, saying it doesn't exist because it still snows. Not exactly strong evidence.

kona

Shasta, I will give you an opinion that may or may not resonate with you. It is my firm belief that the relatively rapid population growth on this planet is the greatest threat to the longevity of the Earth. I think controlling the population is a greater cure than having millions of wind turbines, millions of solar panels or the reduction of the use fossil fuels. What do you think?

Mudstump

Kona - I said nothing about protesting...peacefully or otherwise.

kona

I agree, so what do you think about the protests?

Shasta

Kona, If you believe we have a population problem I won't disagree with that opinion. But, I think we both know this country nor any others are going to stop having children. I'm not sure what other options you have in mind about addressing the issue. I think we know that one certain political view is doing all it can to limit women's access to birth control. But that's a different conversation.
If you're saying we don't have enough land or resources to support any more people, than how do you expect to address the displacement of millions that will result from rising sea levels. Unless you don't believe in the effects climate change. If we do as you suggest and not reduce the consumption of fossil fuels, isn't that just accelerating what you fear? As we flood major urban centers. Its projected that between 300-600 million people will be displaced world wide by the year 2100 if we stay on the current course. Roughly 13 million just in the US. Where do you think they'll go?

Mudstump

Kona - "I agree, so what do you think about the protests?"

The First Amendment to the Constitution states... 'the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances'

People are angry and they don't like the fact that our country is now an oligarchy, our good jobs are disappearing along with the middle-class or that billionaires can buy their own reps to do their bidding. They are ticked when they see the greed of Wall Street tank the country and then get bailed out by the taxpayer while the rest of us do time for minor infractions. Given what has transpired in this country over the last 30+ years it seems that we are reaching a boiling point. It didn't help that Trump and his surrogates threw gas on the fire. Its just my opinion, but I think we are poised on the edge of dangerous territory and I hope that Pres. Trump will change his behavior and refuse to fan the flames. Peaceful non-violent protest is within our right, but don't expect things to be peaceful in the future. The Boston Tea Party wasn't exactly a peaceful protest. We have a white nationalist being considered as Chief of Staff in the Trump administration....really inconceivable don't you think? If Trump sincerely cares about this country he will find someone else that isn't so problematic and abrasive to so many. We will see very soon if Trump represents about all of the people in the US or if he remains a very divisive force. The future is in his hands now.

Shasta

Alabama senator Jeff Sessions: Trumps daily pick for the war against civil rights. This guy is almost as bad as Bannon.
Another small step in "bringing the country together"

kona

Shasta, that is a leap on your part. You stated, " But, I think we both know this country nor any others are going to stop having children". I implied (in my mind) that the rate of growth in the population needs to be seriously addressed. I apologize for not making that clear. It will be impossible to slow down the use of fossil fuels etc. if population growth continues at the present rate. This discussion was popular in previous decades and largely ignored by many/most in the world. China was pretty much labeled as "weird" for taking a stance. I agree that it was a drastic step but an important step. As transportation/mobility increases by the numbers of people involved the population numbers should be at the forefront.

You stated, "I think we know that one certain political view is doing all it can to limit women's access to birth control. But that's a different conversation". Are you referring to the Catholic religion?

You stated, "Its projected that between 300-600 million people will be displaced world wide by the year 2100". That is serious so don't buy any beach houses. That will happen gradually and people will have to adapt. This could easily happen with the natural effect of global warming. I agree that humans can increase the rate of warming if not vigilant. It is similar to the growth in population. People love the use of fossil fuels (same as sex) so what will be accomplished will not make much of a dent in the natural trends.

Finally you asked, "Where do you think they'll go?" That question circles back to my original thought that population controls will be the root cause in addressing these problems. The controls will be difficult and probably will come too late and after this disaster will not be able to be turned around.

Thank you for the discussion, I appreciate your input.

You stated, "

kona

Jeff Sessions is an interesting choice. He will easily be confirmed. I have followed his career for more than two decades. He is very well respected, but obviously contradicts your ideology.

Mudstump

Jeff Sessions for AG? He's been part of "the swamp" of establishment politics for years. I thought Trump was going to bring something new to his administration? John Bolton for Sec. of State? He's another hard-line republicans that is deeply entrenched in republican administrations? What happened to draining the swamp?

kona

Mudstump stated, "The First Amendment to the Constitution states... 'the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances'. Wouldn't it be refreshing if the Hillary Clinton supporters would adhere to the constitutional provisions.

Yuo said, " Given what has transpired in this country over the last 30+ years it seems that we are reaching a boiling point". I totally agree. It wouldn't have mattered who won the election these problems would have progressed. It will be interesting.

I do not support the nomination of Steve Bannon but we will have to see how that plays out. I'm sure that every decision/influence that happens will be highly scrutinized.

tagup

Not "draining the swamp"...just trading the alligators....

Mudstump

tag - In 1986 the Senate rejected Sessions nomination by Reagan for an appointment as a federal judge because he had made racists comments. Besides Sessions is an establishment republican....I thought Trump was going to clean house?

Don Dix

Shasta -- If one wanted to accurately measure the Earth's temperature, wouldn't it be prudent to include area such as Siberia, or Bolivia? Because the compilation does not include those large areas, as well as others. Besides, those are cold areas.

Pollution? Even though the EPA has included CO2 as a pollutant (politically), that doesn't make it so. CO2 is nicknamed 'the gas of life', for a reason. CO2 is food for vegetation, which by photosynthesis expels oxygen. That's kinda' important, right?

If CO2 level's were to fall below 150ppm, life on Earth would cease as we know it. The safe level on the high end is 5000ppm, so we are much closer to danger at the low end, and far away from the high.

The Little Ice Age (Maunder Minimum) ended approx. 1850. We are told that temperature records began in 1880. And what would be the result of a long cold event ending? -- warming, of course! I

In my lifetime, it seems every decade there arises a 'great threat' so the government can save us. Global warming (now climate change) is just another lame attempt from another angle. Otherwise, those who preach lowering 'your CO2 footprint' would lead by example, but that doesn't appear to be the case. In my estimation, that's a real clue to what's up!

Mudstump

Here it comes the gutting of Medicare folks...wait for it...

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/306540-house-gop-eying-major-medicare-overhaul-in-2017

"Budget Committee Chairman Tom Price (R-Ga.) said he expects lawmakers to push forward with an overhaul “within the first six to eight months” of President-elect Donald Trump's administration.

He said it would be tackled through the budget tactic in the Senate called “reconciliation,” which allows major spending-related bills to pass the upper chamber without a veto."

kona

Mudstump, Is "gutting" the same thing as "overhaul" in liberal language? Can't wait to see if you are correct.

Mudstump

kona -Trump ran on leaving Medicare alone. So, why are we getting an "overhaul"? The republicans have been trying to end Medicare for years....its no secret. What Paul Ryan proposes is ending the program guarantee and shifting the cost onto seniors. Many senior citizens won't be able to get coverage and the "voucher" won't come close to covering the out-of-pocket costs. It is estimated that under Paul Ryan's proposal senior's costs will go from approximately $6,000/yr to over $12,000/year. What's more is that seniors will have to navigate the private insurance market with few if any of the restrictions on pre-existing conditions or caps. I wonder how a private insurance company will treat folks who have 67+ years of pre-existing conditions? Ryan's plan will be a huge windfall for the insurance industry. Medicare is popular, successful and extremely cost effective. Make no mistake about it republicans will phase out Medicare. Will Trump fight to keep it as promised?

kona

Mudstump you said, "The republicans have been trying to end Medicare for years....its no secret". I have never heard of that and I have been a Republican since the beginning of Medicare. Can you name names of these "republicans" besides a proposal by Paul Ryan to make Medicare better? Surely you realize that it would be political suicide to make Medicare or a substitute program worse than what now exists. Democrats and Republicans agree that Obamacare needs adjustments.

tagup

The "voucher" system would certainly be worse for those receiving benefits,...but better for an agenda that would give the appearance of reducing the budget.....obviously put together by people that don't actually need the coverage.

Mudstump

kona - "I have never heard of that and I have been a Republican since the beginning of Medicare."

Saint Ronnie said that Medicare would destroy all liberty and freedom in the country. Republicans voted in 2011 and 2013 to overhaul Medicare into a voucher system...privatizing the program. Are you not remembering George W trying to privatize Medicare and Social Security in 2004? They dropped it because their plan was so unpopular with the public.

Privatization of Medicare and Social Security was a big part of the sequestration fight.

I don't know where you have been, but the republicans want to end Medicare and Social Security. It's what they have been all about for years now. So far the democrats have been able to stop them, but now republicans are in charge of everything and you can say goodbye to both programs. Programs that have kept millions of seniors alive. Republicans want to enrich their corporate sponsors and these two programs will be the profit motherload for the insurance industry and Wall Street.

kona

You are really getting desperate. Now you say, "I don't know where you have been, but the republicans want to end Medicare and Social Security." That is not going to happen. Both political parties throw out "trial balloons" to see what might stick, including our President Obama.

You need to get over this election. It is over ... done ... finished. The Republicans around the U.S. have more support than perhaps ever in the history of the United States.

Mudstump

kona - "The Republicans around the U.S. have more support than perhaps ever in the history of the United States."

1,706,308 more people voted for Hillary than Trump.


Mudstump

kona - "You need to get over this election. It is over ... done ... finished."

Did the right get over Obama's presidency? Republicans have been completely uncooperative for eight years putting party ahead of country. In the end, they even refused to hold hearing on his nomination for the Supreme Court thereby stealing it. They called him and his family monkeys, said he wasn't born in the US, portrayed him as Hitler, obstructed him at every turn, shut down the government twice, they plotted to make him a one-term president on his first day in office and much more and now you want to tell us to get over it? Save your breath it ain't gonna happen....ever. Trump and his administration are going to get called out for every broken promise, breach of ethics and his failure to stop the looney white nationalists, warmongers and bankers who are at the top of his list of appointments. Just saying...we are in for a rough four-years.

kona

You are wasting your time if you think it might be effective to "call out (politicians) for every broken promise or ethics violation. Did you do the same for either one of the Clintons? Or, when they were/are so cozy with Wall Street? You are being totally hypocritical and you should realize that. You said, " they even refused to hold hearing on his nomination for the Supreme Court thereby stealing it". Yes almost the exact same scenario that VP Biden advocated previously as a senator.
Yes, you need to get over it. And I am saying that as a person who doesn't like Donald Trump.

Mudstump

kona - Yes, I have called out the democrats. I believe Bill Clinton was one of the worst presidents we have had. He gave us the trade agreements, he signed the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 which repealed Glass Steagall Act of 1933, he brought us DOMA, he repealed the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and more. Obama fell short on many of his promises, but he faced unprecedented opposition with the republicans. The establishment of both parties is corrupt however, the public allows themselves to be divided on issues while the powerful retain power. If we ever decided to come together and refuse to listen to the lies we are fed on a daily basis we might be able to change things in DC, however it hasn't happened and we have yet another corrupt administration. Your statement that I need to "get over it" is exactly what the establishment wants. They count on people like you to keep the status quo. Keeping us poor, struggling, and hating each other keeps us from over obtaining the kind of collective power to actually overhaul government.

Horse with no name

Mudstump - You nailed it. Would love to see "Mudstump" on a local ballot someday!

kona

"....and we have yet another corrupt administration". You are referring to the Obama Administration. "Horse with no name" agrees and endorses your opinion. Those are pretty harsh opinions coming from liberal/progressive/Democrats. You must be excited that Hillary Clinton didn't win the election.

kona

Mudstump said, "Keeping us poor, struggling, and hating each other keeps us from over obtaining the kind of collective power to actually overhaul government."

That is quite an indictment of the eight years of the Obama Administration and the Democratic Party.

Horse with no name

Ah another broadcast from the Bizarro World. A great illustration of part of the problem. Now I'm going to think about the things to be thankful for.

Mudstump

kona - Critical thinking is a concept that you don't seem to be able to grasp.

Have a great Thanksgiving. Today my thoughts this Thanksgiving will be with the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe who are enduring brutal assaults with water cannons, rubber bullets and tear gas as they stand to protect their native land, environment and religious beliefs.

kona

I have mixed feelings about the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe. Would they rather the oil be shipped by rail which is much more problematic? It is not "their" land. They just happened to be the last tribe in that location before the movement West by settlers. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. I don't have the sympathy for them as you feel. This conflict has been escalated by the "green energy folks" who would like nothing more than to shut down the fossil fuel industry.

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